Turkey Runs, Turkey Hides, Turkey Is.........guilty Of Genocide

[Heresson]

Paiktis, I think that comparing the fate of Armenians and Greeks and especially Kurds isn't fully justificated.

[Bereta_Eder]

Heresson, the Armenians got the worst deal, certaintly. The Turks literally massacred them (2 millions of women children and men) and it was the first genocide of the 20nth Century. Luckily they still have some part of their land to call their own. But 90% of it is captured by Turkey.


Kurds are a nation like Greeks who unlike us did not put forth a separate country for many reasons. Whole villages of kurds were burned up in eastern Turkey by the regular army of the Turks in the '90s.


Greeks have to deal with Turkey on a national level. So we are the most fortunate of the 3, I agree with that.

[Heresson]

Kurds participated in massacres of Armenians I think - I may be wrong, though.

[Bereta_Eder]

You are right. Indeed they participated in the genocide of the Armenians since the Turks had promised them a country of their own if they did. The Turks never fulfilled that promice.

Really the Kurds are one of the most brutalized people on this earth, and completely forgotten by everyone, except Turkey's enemies.

[Heresson]

The thing that enrages me is that now they claim for the land where they got rid of Armenians. I think that Kurdistan
gets Van, Manatzkirt or Erzerum, Armenia should invade it and take what's Armenian.

[Bereta_Eder]

Turkey should be left with only an area around Ankara.



People are working for it

Down with that "europianization of Turkey" idea. It's a waste of time, like chasing rainbows

Seriosuly though, I don't think that anyone wants war in these parts of the world except for the military regime of Turkey. And it will get it, if it wants it so bad. But in our sweet time.

[Bereta_Eder]

check the lattest provocation

Greece concerned over alleged Turkish aggression in Aegean Sea
Fri Sep 20,12:15 PM ET

ATHENS, Greece - Greece's defense minister expressed concern Friday over alleged Turkish "aggression" in the Aegean Sea, where territorial disputes between the rival NATO ( news - web sites) neighbors have nearly led to war in the past.



Defense Minister Yannos Papantoniou said most of the concern focused on alleged violations of Greek airspace by Turkish jets in recent weeks. Many of those alleged violations occurred during Greek military exercises held this week in the Aegean region.

"There is a general worry that concerns not just today's exercise and that worry is connected with the relatively aggressive position of the Turkish air force recently as far as violations and infringements of national air space," Papantoniou said. "I want to believe that this does not mean something worse."

During alleged violations, Greek jet fighters intercept and often engage Turkish jets in mock dogfights.

Papantoniou made the comments on the Aegean island of Chios, located near the Turkish coast, where army, air force and navy units wrapped up the annual Parmenion military exercise.

Greece and Turkey have long-standing disputes over airspace control and territorial rights in the Aegean. The disputes and the divided eastern Mediterranean island of Cyprus have almost caused three wars in the past 28 years.

Although relations have improve in the past three years, the two countries are no closer to solving their core disputes.

Greek officials worry that relations could deteriorate ahead of Cyprus' planned entry into the European Union ( news - web sites) at the end of the year. The island has been divided into Greek and Turkish Cypriot zones since 1974, when Turkey invaded the northern third of the island.

EU-member Greece has warned that if the island does not become a member, it will veto the entry of other countries. Turkey, which also wants to begin membership talks, has threatened to annex the Turkish-controlled north of the island if the EU accepts Cyprus before a settlement.

Greek parliament speaker Apostolos Kaklamanis warned after the military exercise that the legislative body would not ratify any EU expansion treaty if Cyprus "is not among the first, if not the first" country to join the 15-nation bloc.

[Heresson]

Ankara? Why?
Once a Muslim friend, a Turkofil, asked me why I am so keen on Greece and Armenia and do not see a nice country in between of them. As I replied; What country? Greece and Armenia border on Halys river...

No, I like Turks. Really I think of them, and Azers too, as a very friendly nation. But...

[Bereta_Eder]

and another turkish provocia which is holding up the unified new european rapid reaction force.


Doubts have been raised about the future of the international peacekeeping operation in Macedonia.

Nato is due to hand over command of the operation to the European Union at the end of October.


Violence has died out after a peace deal last August


But now two senior diplomats, from Nato and from the EU, have told BBC News that Nato will probably have to stay on for another two to three months.

A disagreement between Greece and Turkey is stymieing EU attempts to forge a defence capability.

The operation, called Amber Fox, is a small affair - only around 700 troops, with the job of protecting international monitors in Macedonia.

But for the European Union, Amber Fox is deeply significant.

It was meant to begin on 27 October - and would have been the moment the European security and defence policy came to fruition.

But sources in the office of Javier Solana, the EU's foreign policy chief, have said to expect a delay of a month or more.

A senior diplomat at Nato put the delay at two or three months.

Turkish objections

The problem is that Turkey - a member of Nato - has balked at the prospect of the EU having access to Nato assets when they then might be used against Turkish interests.

An agreement was hammered out to prevent that - but then Greece said it wanted a reciprocal agreement protecting it. Turkey then objected.



Until Greece and Turkey can resolve their differences, the rapid reaction force will be going nowhere.



Diplomats in both the EU and Nato say the gap between the Turkish and Greek positions is tiny.

But they say there is a vast deficit in terms of the political will on both sides to secure agreement.

Making matters worse, they frankly concede, is the fact that Turkey's elections, due in November, make negotiations now extremely difficult.

Nor does this just have implications for Operation Amber Fox.

The EU has plans to have a rapid reaction force of 60,000 soldiers ready for deployment by June of next year.

That force is seen as key to the EU's global prestige.

Until Greece and Turkey can resolve their differences, the rapid reaction force will be going nowhere.

[VetLegion]

paiktis no, I am not jelaous of greece

actually, when I think my country is sh[v]i[/v]tty, I think of greece and I feel better already

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Heresson
Ankara? Why?
Once a Muslim friend, a Turkofil, asked me why I am so keen on Greece and Armenia and do not see a nice country in between of them. As I replied; What country? Greece and Armenia border on Halys river...

No, I like Turks. Really I think of them, and Azers too, as a very friendly nation. But...

I suppose they'll have to live somewhere too, no?

There can be common borders between Greece and Armenia without having to wipe out Turkey completely.

[VetLegion]

about the Kurds, I agree, they should get their own state.

I dont particularly love the Turks

but you bash them all the time while your country really has issues it has to work out. situation is far better then turkey, but far worse then any other EU country

serious stuff like human rights and right to civ

[Bereta_Eder]

Vetlegion, seriously, I know to what you were refering.

[Bereta_Eder]

I think that Croatian media are a bit biased against Greece on these matters. Especially because of your closness to FYROM and our stance during the yugoslav war.



And I beg to diagree. Situation is far better in Greece than other EU countries. Just look at Spain and ETA. Or the UK and IRA. Really there is no comparison in the tranqquility of Greek society in comparison with other EU states. I mean that.

[VetLegion]

There can be common borders between Greece and Armenia without having to wipe out Turkey completely.

but seriousely, right to self determination is in the UN charter.
right to be ruled by your own people is an inseparable one. Kurds should get a state

the only problem is, we would definately see an explosion of Kurd nationalism if it happened, and troubles with its neighbours.

realpolitik