Like it or not Euros, we're the best country in the world

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Lemmy

the fact of the matter is america leads in space programs, it could build the inst by itself its just letting other countires help so they can say they had a part in it.

the inst? what's that?

Doesn't matter, the DL is dead.

[Guardian]

Re: Like it or not Euros, we're the best country in the world

Originally posted by johncmcleod
I don't mean to brag, but a lot of Euros laugh when we say we're the best country in the world.

I don't laugh.

I just think it's a pretty god-darned arrogant thing to say, and it makes me think perhaps I can understand why some people just want to screw you over any way they can.

-And don't start to give me any of that crap about being invulnerable. Remember, it just took a handful of thugs with knives to prove that you're not.

[Velociryx]

El Freako, I disagree. Had CNN provided global coverage of Cheng Ho's expeditions, I think it'd be safe to assume that our history books would read differently. In a world outfitted with near-instantaneous, round-the-clock communications, there's the guy who did it first, and then there's the also-rans.

-=Vel=-

[Rogan Josh]

Please define the word 'best' as used in the title.

I presume you don't mean 'most pleasant to live in'...

[el freako]

Originally posted by Velociryx
El Freako, I disagree. Had CNN provided global coverage of Cheng Ho's expeditions, I think it'd be safe to assume that our history books would read differently. In a world outfitted with near-instantaneous, round-the-clock communications, there's the guy who did it first, and then there's the also-rans.

-=Vel=-

If that is so please explain why, despite massive media coverage and a great selection of 'firsts', NASA's budget is at least an order of magitude lower (relative to GDP) than it was 30 years ago.
I think that, if modern communications had existed 600 years ago, then the ordinary chinese citizen would be as apathetic about Cheng Ho's expeditions as today's US citizen is about space exploration (i.e. it's nice, but they see no tangible benefits for themselves, only costs).


Personally I think that humans will colonize space - but I think there will only be significant populations off earth (1m or more) by the 22nd century - and most of the people doing the actual colonizing will be africans, arabs and south asians.

[Wernazuma III]

Oh, johncmcleod, you've really convinced me! I sold my house, grabbed my baggage, my wife and my child and already stand on the door of almighty USA, the objectively best place in the world. I can imagine nothing better than moving to Arkansas or Mississippi, the deeper in the Bible-belt the better, apply for a loan and spend my whole life paying the loan back so my children can study, while having only 2 weeks of holidays and no social or medical security at all...

Your opinion in all honor, john, I don't tell you that you should love Europe or the European system more than your private Idaho. But please abstain from telling us over here that the USA are objectively THE BEST. I've been there (and to quite a few other places in the world) and the USA didn't convince me at all - you got some really nice places and I grant that your Jazz-music is light-years ahead of that in Europe, but I definitely prefer Austria to the USA, or at least to the major parts of it. And I don't do so with bias, but because I feel it.

I got an offer for an extra-education, supplied with scholarship money, in the USA but I declined because that would mean a career in the US, or more specifically Arkansas, and I can imagine far better places for my child...

[The Pioneer]

Wernazuma I agree with. Especially when it comes to kids growing up in the US compared to most countries in Europe the US looses a lot. I've been in school in three different countries among them the US and I must say that the quality of most US high schools can not even come near to the ones in Europe. I remember once as an exchange student in the St. Louis area, what kind of questions the students there asked me, crazy. Although I should note the positive (and partly naive) attitude they had with us exchange students unlike the kids here in Europe who would instantly fall into stereotypes! If you asked me though today I would go and live in the US if the offer was good enough. I'd be sending my kids to Europe though as much as posiible.

So long...

[johncmcleod]

As I said before, I am not trying to be arrogant. Some Europeans said in a thread that the US was not even the third best country in the world. This whole thread was mainly an argument against that, not some bragging contest. I used the word 'best' in the title because I knew if I said we were the best it would really attract attentino. And I sure was right.

Wernazuma-If you are well educated, speak good English, and work hard I don't think being an immigrant would be as hard as you said.

originally posted by Wernazuma III:
Oh, johncmcleod, you've really convinced me! I sold my house, grabbed my baggage, my wife and my child and already stand on the door of almighty USA, the objectively best place in the world. I can imagine nothing better than moving to Arkansas or Mississippi, the deeper in the Bible-belt the better, apply for a loan and spend my whole life paying the loan back so my children can study, while having only 2 weeks of holidays and no social or medical security at all...

With all due respect, it's funny what you just said. Millions of immigrants throughout history have done just that to be in the US. I'd like to compliment you though on stating your opinion better than some other people. Some just accused me of 'breathtaking arrogance' and such. You actually said you honored that I have my own opionon which some others didn't.

And Sagacious Dolphin-What year did the US do their first space walk? (I know that was after the USSR did it, but where's the USSR now?)? And what year was the first European (besides Russians) to go into space? Yes, Europe may have more satellites, but why were the US and the USSR the only ones in the space race? I know there is some thought on whether or not we landed on the moon, and whether we did it or not it was proved by mathematicians that we had the technology to do it, and anyways, if we didn't make it to the moon, we got closer than that goal than the Europeans have.

[Lemmy]

I used the word 'best' in the title because I knew if I said we were the best it would really attract attentino. And I sure was right.

i just love that backpeddling

And Sagacious Dolphin-What year did the US do their first space walk? (I know that was after the USSR did it, but where's the USSR now?)? And what year was the first European (besides Russians) to go into space? Yes, Europe may have more satellites, but why were the US and the USSR the only ones in the space race? I know there is some thought on whether or not we landed on the moon, and whether we did it or not it was proved by mathematicians that we had the technology to do it, and anyways, if we didn't make it to the moon, we got closer than that goal than the Europeans have.

ok, i'm not SD, but here goes...
I don't doubt that the moonlanding was real, but the biggest reason the US did it was because of the USSR, now like you said, where is the USSR now?
And how long has it been since your last moonlanding? eh?
The US days of glory in space we're in the 60' and 70's, the only big thing you did recently was maybe the mars rover, and the EU has already planned a schedule for several Mars missions during the next 30 years. And why the USSR and US were the only ones in the space race? WW2 maybe?

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by johncmcleod
Yes, Europe may have more satellites, but why were the US and the USSR the only ones in the space race? I know there is some thought on whether or not we landed on the moon, and whether we did it or not it was proved by mathematicians that we had the technology to do it, and anyways, if we didn't make it to the moon, we got closer than that goal than the Europeans have.

You seemed to have missed my entire point. Going to the moon is a great acheivement, but it is one that many nations can match - but choose not to. The USSR and Europe never went to the moon because there was no point - there was and is absolutely nothing to gain that could justify the cost.

If the US had launched a satellite before Sputnik, a dog before Laika, or an astronaut before Yuri Gagarin, then the US would have had no reason to go to the moon and the Apollo programme would never have existed. The whole programme was about ego-stroking and reassuring the American public.

[Wernazuma III]

With all due respect, it's funny what you just said. Millions of immigrants throughout history have done just that to be in the US.

Well, that was especially because there was much space and immigrants were welcome and the situation of those immigrants back home was more than bad. But especially because they could expect to get LAND for subsistance. Immigration to those parts in South America which were "conquered" from the natives very late (southern Chile for example) the immigration was no less than in the USA (proportionally of course, not in absolute numbers).
None of these factors is valid today, except for the immigration laws which are still more liberal than over here in Europe. Yet, many fugitives prefer to go to Europe. Certainly, many chose the US as well, but it's not the desired destination for everyone -

Why? Because whether one place is "good" or "better" is not an objective category. You can't take a few economic datas, a music-style and then say "US are the best". It simply depends on the importance one ascribes to certain facettes of life. As I've already said in my first post (I guess), it is absolutely unimaginable to me living in a surrounding which is so hard-line puritan-protestant as many parts of the US are. Someone who loves Jazz really really much will probably say New Orleans is THE BEST place in the world - for my part, I can do pretty well without swamp, mosquitos and a high crime rate...
If you've got no problem with taking risks, one can probably make more money in the US than anywhere else and more opportunities to make it. Yet, others could rather think it's desirable to live in a state that offers a better social security, just in the case that not everything goes as planned. Being poor in the US is not really a funny thing...


It really depends what you're focussing on and we should let it bew good with this. I've had discussions with several Americans on that issue and it was always like they were still thinking "But when you get the chance, you WOULD go to the US, because it's so much better", no matter what I said to convince them that I probably wouldn't (it all depends on the offer ). And I guess I'm not the only European with this experience, so that probably explains why some accused you of being "breathtaking arrogant". I won't, because it's absolutely fine for me that YOU consider the US the best place to dwell. But it makes no sense to tell all others that they should accept this "truth" because it all depends on what someone wants for his life.

[flash9286]

i have no "breathtaking arrogant", i chose to defend my country in words from people like u, I just went to France and I went out to eat when they heard i was American they rose the price of my food, saying america is a religious country is a false sterotype. And into somebody else post about america beening a warmgonger country is stupid too first Europe has asked us to join all world war, or in colinal periods attacked us first.

[ZoboZeWarrior]

Originally posted by flash9286
I just went to France and I went out to eat when they heard i was American they rose the price of my food,

Can you indicate me where you ate ? Because such act it's totally illegal in France. We have a very straight laws about prices.

Many french don't appreciate Americans, but if you see some American tourists in France, you will understand the reason.

[Combat Ingrid]

In my experience, you might be completely (and arrogantly)ignored if you speak English. Many of my friends share the same experience.
I heard from a French guy I know that this is most common in Paris and not so bad in the rest of France but he didn't really know why.
Do you have any explanation to this phenomenon? It is no big problem in any other country I have visited, only in France

[Dauphin]

Most French people hate Parisites. I mean Parisians, anyway..