Should we fight? A liberal's view.

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
The last time I checked, the objective of the 1990-91 Gulf War was the liberation of Kuwait, not the invasion of Iraq and subsequent occupation of Baghdad and removal of Saddam Hussein.

Perhaps it's easy to "forget" that little aspect now, nearly 12 years later, or dismiss it anyway, but I really don't think our Arab allies at the time would've been pleased had we gone beyond the objectives. In fact, it's my understanding that it was behind-the-scenes pressure, in addition to the limits of the UN mandate, that led to coalition forces coming to a halt in southern Iraq.

Not that "Stormin" Norman Schwartzkopf was pleased. From what I've heard, he told Bush Sr., et al., that he was only 30 to 40 minutes away from Baghdad. I believe he also stated something about cutting the head off the snake ... and that's something that didn't happen in 1991.

We stopped short, and ever since a number of folks have been conveniently forgetting or dismissing *why* we stopped short.

Gatekeeper

I don't know why but I can report that almost 100% of the people I know here in America was disgusted with it. I think in the end that is why George Bush lost his reelection bid.

It was a mistake.

[Velociryx]

Don't worry JT....I'm not *that* much of a kook. I simply have questions about the events of that day. There are a number of inconsistencies that should be investigated. *would be* investigated, if not for Presidential pressure to squash the investigations almost before they began.

My opinion there is that if there's nothing to hide, then there's no good reason not to allow the investigations. Quashing them only serves as a nod of silent confirmation among those who closely watch our government that something does indeed, stinketh.

-=Vel=-

[Jac de Molay]

Vel, show me ONE NATION that has done such a dirty record as you involving third countries

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions

[Bereta_Eder]

The ease by which you bypass such questions BTW gives leverage to people who claim that only strikes at the heart of your countries (inocents not inocents who the **** cares, obviously you don't) will make you listen.

just like the palestinians did to get support (and got it).


the road to heaven is paved with bad ones then :shrugs:

[Velociryx]

No problem, Pat....let's see....where to start:

Hitler's Germany

Stalinist Russia

Some nut-ball in Cambodea

Colonial Spain

Great Britain, during her heyday

Shall I continue? Those were just the easy ones off the top of my head.

The US throws its weight around, that's more than true. Too much for my tastes, and too much for the tastes of a lot of people, but we're rank ammetures compared to many, including ALL of the former colonial powers.

I'd say we're in good company then.

-=Vel=-
(kinna hard to find that country with the spotless record, eh?)

[Felch]

Paiktis, the fact that we failed in Cyprus doesn't mean we should fail again in the future. Nations can redeem themselves.

[Bereta_Eder]

vel, thank you for comparing the US to Nazi Germany. That says a lot.


Felch X, please. you didnt fail. you didnt care. if you wanted to redeem yourselves you wouldnt attack iraq but force turkey to respect human rights and get out of cyprus and then go on from there

[Velociryx]

I didn't compare the US to Nazi Germany. You asked me for examples of countries with worse records. I supplied a partial list. Simple as that.

-=Vel=-

[KrazyHorse]

We're too busy laughing at the Greeks.

You know we let you in NATO as a joke, right?

[C0ckney]

like felch said, the fact that we didn't do anything in cyprus doesn't mean we wouldn't have been justified in doing something or make the gulf war any less justified.

[Felch]

We failed the moral test. I admited that. But we have no obligation to go along with every little Greek pet project like "liberating captured territory," or "encouraging our allies to respect human rights." For Christ's sake, we have an empire to manage, and poor people to oppress.

If you want to take back Cyprus, feel free. I'm sure we'll sell you all the guns and planes you need.

[Bereta_Eder]

frogger, you're canadian FFS.

vel, same difference

cockney, it shows that you have double standards to say the least. at the same time you support a regime like turkey and at the same time you protect the innocents of iraq? please.

[KrazyHorse]

FFS?

[Velociryx]

Sometimes, Pat, you make NO sense at all!

-=Vel=-

[C0ckney]

where did you get the idea that i 'support' the turkish government's actions from?