Majority of Canadians polled say US partially to blame for 9-11

[Asher]

Originally posted by Frogger
That's exactly the way all polls are worded. They tell you the format of the test then give the question...

I'd like to see a poll about seeing if most Canadians oppose the US sending troops there...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher
I see a majority of Albertans support sending forces though.

Just barely...whereas a largish majority of Quebec is against it.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher

I'd like to see a poll about seeing if most Canadians oppose the US sending troops there...

Yup...but that's not as pressing a question.

After direct military support, the next most important question is whether Chrétien should provide diplomatic support...

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Ming
No I'm not... you are the one doing that. I claimed that polls can be rigged... I never denied that. I was responding to your comment that nobody has figured out how to do it right. And that's just wrong.

OK, I'll concede that point, but I still don't believe most are done correctly.

Parranoid?

Perhaps, but it does seem that a poll matches the agenda of whomever does the poll.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Chris 62
What percentage can name the "policy" exactly, that made them responcible?

Easy. American support for Israel.

Everybody knows that - you go to the poorest muslim village in Indonesia or Pakistan and they'll tell you that.

I think Canadians might have worked that out too

What amazes me is Americans haven't

[Kaak]

if anyone ever figures out where the hell canada is, there is going to be hell to pay...

[Ming]

Originally posted by Chris 62
Perhaps, but it does seem that a poll matches the agenda of whomever does the poll.

There is a simple answer for that... If the results of a poll don't say what you want them to do, you just don't release the results

Again... always look at the technical appendix before reading the results... Because if there is a bias in the poll, it is usually very obvious after reading how the data was collected and how they asked the questions.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Chris 62
OK, I'll concede that point, but I still don't believe most are done correctly.

Parranoid?

Perhaps, but it does seem that a poll matches the agenda of whomever does the poll.

The Globe&Mail is pretty much as centrist a newspaper you can get in Canada. It's too right-wing for me, too left-wing for Asher.

[KrazyHorse]

But it's pretty much the only Can. newspaper I trust to get the facts mostly right and try to avoid injecting editorial thoughts where they don't belong...

[Imran Siddiqui]

All the new york stations had Bush way out in front Imran, surprising as NY is a VERY democratic area.

Then they didn't look at Zogby or CNN/NY Times, etc. I remember getting very interested in the poll numbers as they became even a few days before the general election.

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Everybody knows that ...

You REALLY need to read entire threads dear boy...

[Ming]

Originally posted by Frogger
But it's pretty much the only Can. newspaper I trust to get the facts mostly right and try to avoid injecting editorial thoughts where they don't belong...

As a person who has spent a lot of money buying media in Canada... your trust in the paper is supported by many people. Every FAIR study I've seen shows it's one of the most respected media outlets in Canada.

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Then they didn't look at Zogby or CNN/NY Times, etc. I remember getting very interested in the poll numbers as they became even a few days before the general election.

But the dopey networks were way off, the SO nearly threw a shoe through my living room TV when she saw Georgie ahead in a poll!

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Asher

9-11 isn't about converting people though, it was about "punishing" the US and trying to get them to stop meddling around with other countries.

Haven't you guys ever seen the videos where he rants?

Wrong. 9-11 and the videos are far more about inciting jihad and inspiring Islamic uprisings and fundamentalist movements, by demonstrating that they had the power to dramatically strike even the "most powerful" country in the world.

Bin Laden and his followers derive much of their Islamic views from the writings of al Qutb, who took Sayyid Maududi's writings on modern Islamic fundamentalism and expanded on them after his visits to the west in the late 1940's and early 1950's. This was long before the US was a major player in the middle east, and at the very beginning of US prominence in foreign policy, long before there was much to particularly hate us over.

Al Qutb's hardon for the US and the west in general was primarily based on morals and decadence. (Keep in mind this was the socially conservative 40's and 50's we're talking about - just imagine what they think of us now ) Everything from the consumer society, to the roles of women - especially all that nakedness and brazen sexuality for which the early 50's are known to the total lack of faith in Allah.

We are apostates, sinners, ones who defile the holy days and outrage Allah with our countless abominations. We are hated, to be destroyed without mercy unless we happen to see the light, renounce our wicked ways and in turn take up jihad (and no doubt prove our sincerity by martyrdom). We violate Allah's law by refusing to govern ourselves under Sharia. Our biggest "crime" (and sometimes I see his point ) is the spread of our values and culture.

The big difference between al Qutb's time and bin Laden's has been the availabity of wealth, technology and communications with which the Jihadi could develop and expand their power, and their ability to strike out.

The US was picked for two simple reasons - as the most powerful nation on earth, hitting us proved they could hit anyone. The other (and this gives China a big advantage) is that we are extremely easy to infiltrate. I doubt they would have been able to get 19 guys long term visas and into Chinese flight schools.

[Asher]

So the US' stance on stuff like Israel had absolutely nothing to do with it...

I've heard the "guilty of our own success" stories too many times to care anymore. Everyone but the US thinks differently, perhaps it's time to think outside the box.