People of the New World can't differanciate when it comes to Europe.

[Ned]

Granted, England did rule the waves. But if Germany could trade through Russia, the blockade would not have worked.

[TheStinger]

I'm not saying it was a good plan, just that at the time it wasn't insane for britain and france to declare war on Germany and not sue for peace when Poland was defeated

[ZoboZeWarrior]

Originally posted by Heresson
France - yes, Poland - no. Don't talk about something if You don't know a thing about it.
Comaprison of France is offending for Poland;

[Heresson]

Can You find a city named Vichy in Poland?

[ZoboZeWarrior]

I've seen Auschwitz II ...

[Heresson]

What is it? Auschwitz is a German name, so...

[Col Bigspear]

Originally posted by Ned
Granted, England did rule the waves. But if Germany could trade through Russia, the blockade would not have worked.

The Pact of Steele (I think, was the pact between Germany and Russia) was more or less cosmetic. Fascism and communism opposed each other and Hitler and Stalin hated each other. Stalin agreed to the pact because it guarenteed atleast half of Poland.After poland fell he helped himself to the baltic states.

I was watching the History channel or discovery about Hitler and Stalin. each had spies in the others country. Both German and Russian spies reported the same things. German was planning to invade Russia and Russia was planning to invade Nazi Germany. It was just a matter of time. Stalin arsed the red army up though. Sending many of the high command to the goulags. This is ONE of the reasons why Germany made such huge advancements in late '41.


France and Britain Declared war in my opinion, to scare Germany. Hitler admired the British Empire and would have prefered if they had not declared war.(This is one of the reasons historians use to explain the halt at dunkirk, Yes I now about the others Im using this as an example) By doing this I think they were trying to make him think twice and maybe pull out of Poland.
The french had Built the Maginot(SP?) line since the Great war, though they only built it along the border with Germany .No one thought they would come through the Ardennes with Tanks. The French mode of thinking was still stuck in 1918. Both France and Britain used tanks as infantry support. But Germany Grouped tanks together to punch a hole through the line then wedge it with infantry. They expected long drawn out battles.

During Sept '39 - April '40 was the phoney War. Both sides sat staring at each other. At this point Bomber Command were flying missions over Germany dropping leaflets calling for the Citizens of Germany to do something before it was too late. Up until May 7th '40 the british were still trying to avoid a war. This is why I believe the declaration of war was to scare Hitler.

[Ned]

Col Bigspear, "Up until May 7th '40, the British were still trying to avoid war." --- History also reports that Germany was trying to avoid or stop the war. It looks like the negotiations failed.

But, let's revisit England's strategy: 1) Scare Germany; or 2) blockade and hope for a regime change.

Neither one of these show a clear military path to victory. Neither one was likely achievable at all. Therefore, the point remains, the declaration of war was unjustified.

[TheStinger]

War was declared because Britain had a sense of responsibility to Poland and because it realised that Germany couldn't go on forever doing what it wanted.
At the time it wasn't obvious that Germany could defeat France and force Britain across the channel.

[Giovanni Wine]

Originally posted by Col Bigspear


The Pact of Steele (I think, was the pact between Germany and Russia) was

Nope
The Pact of Steel was the a pact signed in the 1939 between Nazi-Germany and Fascist-Italy.... which later became the Tripartite Pact, which included Japan.

Saluti

[Ned]

Originally posted by TheStinger
War was declared because Britain had a sense of responsibility to Poland and because it realised that Germany couldn't go on forever doing what it wanted.
At the time it wasn't obvious that Germany could defeat France and force Britain across the channel.

I'm sorry Stinger. But you have the logic completely backwards. The question is not whether Germany could defeat Britain and France, but whether the two could defeat Germany. Remember, it was not Germany that declared war.

As to Poland, IIRC, Britain and France carved off whole German territories at the end of WWI and gave them to Poland. What really was at stake in Poland was whether Britain and France could maintain any portion of the Treaty of Versailles. But clearly, they didn't have the power to do it and should have simple asked Poland to give back the stolen German lands.

Talk about arrogance. The Euros claim the US is arrogant today because we are a superpower. But then, my god, England and France really thought they could dictate terms to Germany when Germany was equally as powerful, at least. That is the very definition of arrogance.

[ZoboZeWarrior]

France was Allied to Poland ?

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Ned


I'm sorry Stinger. But you have the logic completely backwards. The question is not whether Germany could defeat Britain and France, but whether the two could defeat Germany. Remember, it was not Germany that declared war.

As to Poland, IIRC, Britain and France carved off whole German territories at the end of WWI and gave them to Poland. What really was at stake in Poland was whether Britain and France could maintain any portion of the Treaty of Versailles. But clearly, they didn't have the power to do it and should have simple asked Poland to give back the stolen German lands.

Talk about arrogance. The Euros claim the US is arrogant today because we are a superpower. But then, my god, England and France really thought they could dictate terms to Germany when Germany was equally as powerful, at least. That is the very definition of arrogance.

What utter bollocks, The British declared war on germany because they had a moral obligation to do so, we didn't over czechoslovakia and the majority of the country felt guilty over it. In 1939 Britian was not dictatting terms to Germany it was following its treaty obligations how can that be arrogance.

If they are stolen lands why haven't the germans got them now?

Hitler used the versailles treaty as a pretext for war, yes it was unfair on germany but Hitler would have gone to war eventualy anyway.

Britain has done many things in the past it should be ahamed of, declaring war on germany isn't one of them

[XarXo]

We've to speak about incans, mayans, aztecs, sioux, iroquois, etc... ?

All the cultures/tribes/amounts of bastards anihilated another ones in some moments of their history. Is sad, but is the truth.

[Ned]

The dictation occurred at the end of WWI with the Treaty of Versailles. Germany was demanding the return of German lands taken from them by that treaty. England and France said no. When Germany acted by force to take back the stolen lands, England and France declared war.

These are the facts.

As to the pretext for war bit, this is highly inconsistent with the peace negotiations that went on 'til spring of '40.