The right to vote in America

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Q Cubed


what comprises basic english? what are its limits?

and we all know that even people with advanced english skills can't always penetrate the obfuscations of legalese...

That's the point...it's a vague enough standard that it seems to give a great deal of wiggle room. I think it is thereby unsound to base policy on such a standard.

[Q Classic]

perhaps. i think the best case here would be define the what passes for basic enlish-- perhaps, as part of the citizenship test, a bit of an english proficiency test as well?

[Caligastia]

If you cant speak english, how can you possibly understand who and what you are voting for? Even if the ballots are in your language you still wont be able to understand what the person you are voting for says. So the vote will be just as random as if the ballots were printed in english. The difference is that a ton of money has been wasted on printing ballots in other languages.

[Boris Godunov]

Cali: not necessarily, as no doubt special interest groups will have peppered the individual's neighborhood/church/etc. with information on who they should vote for, and all probably in their native language.

What about non-English speakers who were natural born citizens? They didn't have to take the test, so would they then be eligible for multilingual ballots?

I tend to agree that one should be expected to learn the language of a country to participate in its civic life. I certainly wouldn't want someone who can't speak English well sitting on my jury if I was on trial.

[Q Classic]

What about non-English speakers who were natural born citizens? They didn't have to take the test, so would they then be eligible for multilingual ballots?

sooner or later they will have to interface with the society that is not part of their little enclave.

when that day comes, be it in school, or playground, or anything else, they will learn english-- and children pick up new languages relatively quickly.

so no, they too are not eligible for multilingual ballots, imho.

[Boris Godunov]

Q--I was actually addressing the original poster, because he's trying to use the citizenship test as his standard. I'm just pointing out not all non-English speaking citizens had to take it.

I agree with you, certainly.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
And a true citizen of this country must at least be able to speak the language of this country!

Democracy is a political system that thrives because of a certain level of free flow of information and public discussion.

I wonder if anyone else sees the inherent contradiction in this. Probably not.


Okay,

Democracy thrives on the free flow of information, so let's restrict the flow of information.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Docfeelgood
To be a citizen one must be able to read, write and understand American english.

You forget about people born in the US to non-citizens? Anyone born in the US is automatically a citizen, no ifs, ands, or buts. It's in the 14th Amendment to the Consitution. As far as Spanish goes, remember that a sizeable proportion of Spanish speakers are either from a US territory, Puerto Rico, or lived in in the part of Mexico that got annexed by the US. There are still entire Mexican communities in the Southwest that can trace themselves back to before the US conquest. The same with the Russian communities in California. Also consider that until very recently, Cubans were given citizenship if they came over and asked for it.

[Colonâ„¢]

I'd like to point out that someone else has been using my login and that the post under my handle in this thread wasn't made by me.

[David Floyd]

You know what would work well? Stick a land ownership qualification on voting. That way only people who own land (which includes their house, if they own it, can vote). Woohoo!

Of course, I'm only joking. I don't really support this, although the political outcome of only allowing middle and upper class people to vote would probably be positive. Doesn't make it a good system though, although I have heard it advocated before.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Colon
I'd like to point out that someone else has been using my login and that the post under my handle in this thread wasn't made by me.

I didnt think that sounded like you. Was it DanS?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I wonder if anyone else sees the inherent contradiction in this. Probably not.


Okay,

Democracy thrives on the free flow of information, so let's restrict the flow of information.

Those in the US who refuse to learn english are restricting themselves.

[Adalbertus]

You know what would work well? Stick a land ownership qualification on voting. That way only people who own land (which includes their house, if they own it, can vote). Woohoo!

Before WWI, Prussia had a voting system in three classes which you were assigned to by the amount of tax you pay. Also some sort of justifiable system: Those who pay, rule. (Not that I wouldn't support this, either )

[Lorizael]

I agree that once in the US people should learn a common language (doesn't necessarily have to be English, but it is currently the most spoken in the US).

But there are probably many cases where people escape their country because they are living terrible lives and don't have opportunities. Not having the opportunity to learn might just be one of them.

So until everyone speaks one language all around the world, we need to accomodate those that don't (yet).

[MrFun]

Q, I do not oppose immigrants being required to learn basic English, but the ones who are in the process of that education, I believe, have the right to vote.

As for your differentiation between right and personal responsibility, that is an interesting argument.
You're saying that irresponsible people should not be denied the right to vote, so what is the issue that concerns you??
Only purely non-English speaking voters??