Should Israel Have Been in Europe Instead

[Sirotnikov]

Could you specify what's a zionist by the point of view of a jew?

Generally the love of Israel,

An actual political definition:
A zionist believes in the idea of a jewish sovereign home in Israel, due to the historical cultural and religious ties of a Jew to Israel.

A zionist would work for that goal and suport it.


From it you can deduce things.

For instance, a book which S Kroeze presented claimed that Zionism basically believes that the rest of the world are all anti-semites. That's incorrect and slanderous.

What is true, that Zionism is based on nationalism, and one of its beliefs is that you are your best friend.

I don't claim that everyone is a jew hater, but most people would care enough to do something to save another person, be he jew or anyone else.

Thus, I can only trust myself (or my people, if organized properly) to give me protection and organize my life.

Furthermore, I believe that Jews shouldn't always be a minority. They should have one state which they can call their own, in which they are a majority and can find refuge in.

That's it.

[Datajack Franit]

Well, if Hitler said it, it must be true!

Oh damn I thought it was Alexander the great who said it! I'm not a nazi, really


Btw it's true that Milosevic has huge responsibilities about that but

the Albanians began withdrawing from public life in Kosovo, refusing to serve in government positions, withdrawing their children from public schools, and refusing to use state health services, etc.

I thought I was the only person in the world who knew that :P
And don't forget that if common citizens did such things, god knows what extremists have in their minds. Just check how many orthodox churches were bombed and burned to the ground, how many serbians had to flee their homes by car while surrounded by dozens of angry kosovars kicking, spitting and insulting. This doesn't fit in the "poor and mistreated kosovar" picture. I'm not saying that all kosovars are like that, nor that serbians didn't do such things as well. But the region was peaceful until THEY started the whole mess.


Ah! Dr. Strangelove how the hell can you have joined this forum in 1970? Thought computers were made up of coke bottles at the time

[Datajack Franit]

What is true, that Zionism is based on nationalism, and one of its beliefs is that you are your best friend.

So it's just being a strong lover of your self and of your own country? Got it. Thx for the explanation

[Sirotnikov]

as for the rest of your post - it's too hard to comment on in 5 AM

[Pekka]

I have a new suggestion what hasn't been really thought about before.

Why don't you Israeli people come here! It's not a problem really, we have synagogues already and all that. Extreme groups are not a factor here at all. and geographically looking, well.. they just can't come. You'd be safe in the north.
There are several perks: You could learn a new international language! We'd give you great addition to technological knowledge, and we'd get that too.
You could get Ã…land to yourself, like autonomy and keep the flag. That's if you want to, that way it would be possible to maintain those. Of course majority would blend into mainland. We'd get Aphex Twin, you'd get humppa. Then we could combine our military forces, you'd get good training and knowledge fighting in winter condition and in extreme weathers, and we'd get your knowledge fighting in cities. This would boost our economies as well, I think together we'd be the coolest technology countries. You could enjoy winters with lots of snow, ski etc, and we could visit former Israel in the summer time, have cabins and villas there.

Naturally the US could keep their funding going on, to make us even greater. We'd have access to your satellites and ICMBs and nukes, and you could have your own cabins by the lake, having saunas and fishing while we try to figure out how to use those buggers.
Nice!

[Sirotnikov]

Why is it claimed to be racist?

Because zionists want Israel to be a jewish state:
ie Jewish majority, Jewish heritage in laws and character

There's no real issue in it, as if you take German, it would be silly to suggest that it is wong for germany to have a majority of Germans, or that Germany should not be based on german culture and so on and so forth.

The claim is usually made for those who live in non-ethnic cultures, like the US and to a point Britain.

[Sirotnikov]

Pekka - our dicks are really small and they'd be even smaller where it's so cold


just kidding.

Please check where jerusalem, is.
That is the absolute center of our religion.
Other religious cities are bethlehem, kiryat arba, hebron, schem (nablus).

[Sirotnikov]

History is written by the winners

oy
that means the palestinians are winning as their version is being broadcast by bbc and cnn

btw, pekka, i'll consult to see what can we do about unification.

[Pekka]

That would fit the picture, ours aren't so massive either! (except mine of course, it's a BEAST!)
And why would we be concerned about that anyway ?

Well I'm NOT saying you should leave it, I mentioned earlier that we (finns) could visit it in the summer time and all that, so naturally it would be under control.

Or we could just airlift the damn thing next to Ã…land.

edit: Or we could just change the names.. Get a new name. We'd be North-X and there would be South-X.
It would be great for our army, as we'd get to see some action, and therefore learn and have that experience. And your soldiers could rest for a while at the North-X.

[KrazyHorse]

that means the palestinians are winning as their version is being broadcast by bbc and cnn

Ha. Are you watching a different CNN than me? On a scale of 1-10, 10 being most pro-israeli, 1 being most pro-palestinian, BBC looks like a 4 and CNN is at around an 8

[Sirotnikov]

heh

CNN is broadcasting nonsense.

For instance, a day ago, while Israeli SF tried to apprehend a suspect he opened fire and a battle ensued in which he was killed and 2 Israeli soldiers were injured.

CNN didn't report it until 18 hours later with the folowing headline:
palestinain sources: israeli troops killed a palestinian in ramallah.

even after that, today, they only published the palestinian version, saying that IDF troops shot first and killed him. Israeli casualties were not mentioned at all.

Not one bit with an interview with the IDF.

It is clear to me that the Palestinian shot first, injuring the two soldiers before being gunned down.

Why?

Because it was an elite unit. If they had shot first - they would have killed him with no casualties.

Then why the 2 casualties you ask? They were disguised as arabs, and weapons hidden, since their goal was to arrest him.

[Sirotnikov]

BBC has crossed every line of journalist integrity.

Not only do they bother to interview israeli spokesmen, maybe once for every 10 palestinian ones, their anchors and analysts are just as active palestinian spokespersons, if not better.

[Sirotnikov]

That would fit the picture, ours aren't so massive either! (except mine of course, it's a BEAST!)
And why would we be concerned about that anyway ?

You don't have to lie

Actually I read to conflicting reports.

One that the Israeli relative size is small (13) and one that it is large (17).

I have no idea which is true.

Well I'm NOT saying you should leave it, I mentioned earlier that we (finns) could visit it in the summer time and all that, so naturally it would be under control.

And we would visit you in the summer time, when it is cold, but not too cold.

Or we could just airlift the damn thing next to Ã…land.

huh? Aland?

edit: Or we could just change the names.. Get a new name. We'd be North-X and there would be South-X.
It would be great for our army, as we'd get to see some action, and therefore learn and have that experience. And your soldiers could rest for a while at the North-X.

Yeah, I imagine guard duty in north would be boring.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Ah! Dr. Strangelove how the hell can you have joined this forum in 1970? Thought computers were made up of coke bottles at the time

I invested heavily in Coca-cola!

[KrazyHorse]

Siro

Even if we stipulate the accuracy of your statements, it's an example of crappy journalism due to incompetence, not bias. CNN couldn't reliably inform you who won WWII.

That being said, their bias toward the Israeli side is evident from such things as their "Victims of Terror" spotlight which lacks a Palestinian counterpart. I'm not saying there's some sort of big conspiracy, but the American public wants a pro-Israeli spin. That's what they get. Euros want a slightly pro-Pal but mainly "morally superior" viewpoint. That's what they get.

CNN was sitting at around a 6 on my scale until a couple of months ago. Then there was a whole brouhaha about them supposedly practicing yellow journalism in favour of the Pals so they did what any market-driven media outlet would do: changed their stance.