Evil Indian Capitalist Polluters Kill Millions

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Re: Evil Indian Capitalist Polluters Kill Millions

Originally posted by Ned
The US is not alone in killing millions through pollution. The Indians join the club. Check out this story on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapc...aze/index.html

Indians? Try all of Asia. The article never singles out India.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Fez
Why shouldn't a country like India pursuit development? Why shouldn't they have their chance at developed status? The answer is this: They most definitely deserve that chance. Retroactive treaties like Kyoto will do nothing but stall economic progress for the entire world but that is not the issue... they deserve the right to reach economic modernization. But is there a way to do it faster and so it pollutes less? Damn well there is. That is what the beauty of capitalism is... it produces advancements and good solid economic growth.

So that in 100 years they'll have the economy to compete with us so that we won't own all the radioactive dirt that'll make up the planet, and will be the only thing left to buy?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous


So that in 100 years they'll have the economy to compete with us so that we won't own all the radioactive dirt that'll make up the planet, and will be the only thing left to buy?

You messed up what I was saying. I said there should be a faster way to reach modern industrialization rather going through the old industrialization process. (How many damn times do I have to say that?) Just because I am capitalist does not mean I hate the environment. That is something the communists, socialists and tree huggers seem not to understand... they present retroactive and illogical proposals, while I suggest one that has the economy in mind.

[Hueij]

Why shouldn't they have their chance at developed status?

You'd better ask this to the IMF, Western companies, Western governments, Western middle class people like you and me and what have you...

My guess is that we benefit too much from the status quo...

[Sandman]

But I have a solution that might be workable, why not help India and China bypass heavy industrialization and go right to more modern industralization?

Problems with your proposal:
*The demand for cleaner fuels such as oil and gas would skyrocket.

*Who's going to foot the bill to replace all those ovens?

*Modern industrialisation still pollutes.

*The world economy will go belly-up without a supply of cheap exploitable labour. Part of the reason they're cheap is that they use cheap fuels like coal and wood.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Hueij
My guess is that we benefit too much from the status quo...

Do we really?

With a country like Japan which rose from being a military state (which frankly did not have a productive economy) to having a high tech one? Which did we really benefit from?

I have to disagree with your line of thinking here entirely.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Fez


Do we really?

With a country like Japan which rose from being a military state (which frankly did not have a productive economy) to having a high tech one? Which did we really benefit from?

I have to disagree with your line of thinking here entirely.

A - Corporations and Globalisation most cetainly were not really issues in the first half of the 20th Century.

B - We were at war with Japan and had little business in the area, leaving the allies free to flatten it.

C - Japan's population is not even half that of India.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Sandman


Problems with your proposal:
*The demand for cleaner fuels such as oil and gas would skyrocket.

Oil and Gas are cleaner?

I was thinking along the lines of (improved) nuclear power...

*Who's going to foot the bill to replace all those ovens?

*Modern industrialisation still pollutes.

But much lesser so that is actually a pro. Don't distort my views please.

*The world economy will go belly-up without a supply of cheap exploitable labour. Part of the reason they're cheap is that they use cheap fuels like coal and wood.

Really? I have to disagree with that.... I think once these developing countries reach modern status... better ways of manufacturing will be invented (that require lesser amounts of humans to work).

Quite frankly, my proposal's potentials outweigh the negatives.

[Hueij]

I suggest you do some reading up on Thirld World Economy before agreeing or disagreeing on anything...

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Fez
Really? I have to disagree with that.... I think once these developing countries reach modern status... better ways of manufacturing will be invented (that require lesser amounts of humans to work).

Quite frankly, my proposal's potentials outweigh the negatives.

Which is cheaper? Spending thousands of dollars on robotics or paying an Indonesian kid three cents an hour?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by red_jon


A - Corporations and Globalisation most cetainly were not really issues in the first half of the 20th Century.

Did I say or even infer they were? And corporations are issues? Shows you political beliefs.

B - We were at war with Japan and had little business in the area, leaving the allies free to flatten it.

Uh huh, your point being?

C - Japan's population is not even half that of India.

And?

Hueij:

I suggest you do some reading up on Thirld World Economy before agreeing or disagreeing on anything...

I suggest you start respecting other beliefs around here because with this pitiful attitude you will accomplish nothing. You will not suggest anything to me because I am already informed on the economies of developing countries. Third world is not the proper term to use anymore by the way... I am trying to teach myself that so you should too.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by red_jon


Which is cheaper? Spending thousands of dollars on robotics or paying an Indonesian kid three cents an hour?

I suspect you would come up with a better comeback than that.

[red_jon]

Gian - yes, even those on the hard-right should be able to admit that there are issues with corporate power. And India has 900 million people, Japan has FAR less than that. Hence, India has many cheap, exploitable labourers which wouldn't be cheap and exploitable if they had large houses and TV sets. So the status quo of them being poor is beneficial to western business.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Fez




I suspect you would come up with a better comeback than that.

And yet you cannot challenge it.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Fez
Yes there are bad pollution problems and I never denied that. But the US has gotten better and as technology improves these bad pollution problems will dimish.

But it never would have gotten better if you conservatives had your way. It's us ecologists who kept pushing you and kept pushing you. And we have a cleaner environment thanks to our nagging.