Rugby - The game they play in heaven

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
finbar what's going on? The first few matches you couldn't pick 'em to save your life and now you can't seem to miss.

I started betting with my head. Last night's match was always going to be a struggle for us. The Boks had proved through the TriNations series that - when they want to be - they can be very hard to contain. And, as it turned out, I don't think the altitude factor played any part in the game.

I missed most of the after match post-mortem. Was there anything to the speculation that the Bok binned over the incident was bitten by the Wallaby?

Nothing came of either that or the eye-gouging speculation. I've only heard of two citings - the Bok skipper for giving George Smith a blood nose, and the Bok sent off for the high tackle.

[LDiCesare]

I finally saw a few images of the match and a few comments. It seems to have been a pretty interesting match, but the French TV talked about bad behaviour from the bok supporters like throwing cans on the wallaby players. Was it so? Are South Africans becoming that silly? Or is it just Salviac (the journalist) who is making a lot of noise for the pleasure of hearing his own voice?

[Tamerlin]

I can't talk about the match itself because I have not seen it nor have I had the time to look at any image on TV.

I have read an article in a newspaper which indicates Finbar's comments and yours about the quality of the game are right (see previous post) but the article is not mentioning any bad action from the supporters.

[finbar]

Bottles were thrown onto the field at the Wallaby players after the Brendan Cannon try that took the Wallabies into the lead in the 75th minute. The Bok administrators deny it happened but it did. The replay after the try shows at least two bottles flying through the air and narrowly missing a couple of Wallaby players. The players say they counted four bottles. George Gregan probably didn't help matters with his enthusiastic celebration after the try was scored. The crowd could be said to have been reacting to his celebration.

Regardless, it's not good enough. The ACT Brumbies came close to walking off Ellis Park last year when they were pelted with objects during a S-12 match. The Bok administrators are going to have to come up with some sort of strategy to control their crowds or they run the risk of losing big matches at their grounds.

On the lighter side - a truce has been called between Ben Tune and Bok skipper Corne Krige. In the first Wallaby-Bok match, Tune belted Krige and split his eyebrow. In Saturday night's match, Krige belted Tune and drew blood. When Tune reappeared on the field with his head bandaged, he called out to Krige: "Can we call it quits now?". Krige called back: "Perfect!". So the score stands at one-all, and everyone's happy.

PS. The two Bok players cited after the match - Krige for punching George Smith, and Joubert for the high tackle that earned the red card - were both cleared by the judiciary.

[NeoStar]

The Wallabies will not cut it...

That Ellis Park game was tough - but the Wallabies performance was just not good enough. SA may have been the 'weakest' Tri Nations team but they cut us to pieces with their fast men.

Why Rogers wasn't allowed on earlier is left for anyone to guess. The usual inspirations: Burke, Mortlock and Latham never really fired and a run from Gregan these days is rare to see.

Eddie Jones has alot of work to do or the World Cup is in real danger of falling into another nations hands. I read an article in the paper calling for the need for backs like Darren Lockyer, Brett Kimmorley and Andrew Johns for the Wallabies and I agree.

The kicking of Johns (the best rugby player in the world) with his precsion, bombs and banana kicks would imporve the Wallabies immensely. With him at five-eighth with Kimmorley at halfback utilising the talent around them and they would deadset unstoppable.

The Wallabies need something of an overhaul before the World Cup, but the good news is that they have the time to do it

[finbar]

Originally posted by NeoStar
I read an article in the paper calling for the need for backs like Darren Lockyer, Brett Kimmorley and Andrew Johns for the Wallabies and I agree.

With the utmost respect - twaddle! The Wallaby halves are the least of the problems between now and the World Cup. Post-World Cup, when both Gregan and Larkham head off to top up their superannuation in the NH - and, given their sterling service, I wouldn't begrudge them in the slightest - it will be a different story. Matt Rogers is already being groomed for the 5/8 spot, so the search will be on - well, it's already underway - for a replacement halfback. Our fundamental problem is - as it has been since time immemorial - a lack of quality depth, meaning our options are always relatively limited.

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by finbar
The Wallaby halves are the least of the problems between now and the World Cup.

C'mon - what is Finbar on at the moment? Larkham's kicking game needs desperate help, he doesn't hit the line as hard as he used to and I can detect a lack of confidence in him (note the way he kept kicking away possession in the 1st half). As for Gregan - the ball's a hot potato, he passes it and never attempts to run the ball himself anymore like in the past (and he was good). Our wingers and centres are plain uninspired at times but I'll admit Tune was under outside pressures.

Originally posted by finbar
Matt Rogers is already being groomed for the 5/8 spot, so the search will be on - well, it's already underway - for a replacement halfback.

Matty is a great player - dont get me wrong, but there is a reaon he wasn't put to five-eighth during his years at Cronulla (and he wanted it). While his goal kicking is great his on field kicking game is not up to the standard the Wallabies need - however I wouldn't put the challange past him to get it right (but a specialist would be preferred - imagine Johns at the helm!). Our forwards are tip top in comparison. The Wallabies are dying with their backs!

Originally posted by finbar
Our fundamental problem is - as it has been since time immemorial - a lack of quality depth, meaning our options are always relatively limited.

That is too broad and undefined, dammit!

[ravagon]

Originally posted by finbar
George Gregan probably didn't help matters with his enthusiastic celebration after the try was scored. The crowd could be said to have been reacting to his celebration.

I saw that in the highlights last night and lost all of the respect I'd gained for him over the past few weeks. In game it looked like he was just celebrating (prematurely as we now know ), but on closer inspection it did look as though it was a goad aimed directly at the crowd/cameras. Did the bottle-throwing begin just afterwards? Again I missed most of this due to poorly-timed (or well-timed if you look at it that way ) ad-breaks.
A similar thing happened in the WI during last (?) seasons cricket (AFAIK the mention of cricket has not yet been outlawed by the R-TGTPIH disciplinary committee ) tour when certain members of the Australian team began acting as though they were playing in front of their own crowds. ie: Acting like jackasses. That may be a little strong perhaps but you get the point.
At home they can afford to do this. Away they can't.
When will some people learn?

[finbar]

Originally posted by NeoStar
Larkham's kicking game needs desperate help, he doesn't hit the line as hard as he used to and I can detect a lack of confidence in him (note the way he kept kicking away possession in the 1st half).

Larkham's kicking his fine. His problem on Saturday night was that he was smashed in a late tackle - yet again - in the first couple of minutes. He got to his feet in cuckoo land and I think it took him quite a while to recover. It's a tactic that just about every team uses on him these days.

As for Gregan - the ball's a hot potato, he passes it and never attempts to run the ball himself anymore like in the past (and he was good).

Gregan probably doesn't kick as often as he should sometimes. It's funny - I remember when he was criticised for kicking too much.

Our wingers and centres are plain uninspired at times but I'll admit Tune was under outside pressures.

If you can't get and control the ball - which was the Wallaby's problem for too much of Saturday night's match - the backs become redundant. When they do get and control the ball - as in the last 20 minutes on Saturday night, as in a lot of the return match against the ABs, as in most of the first match against the Boks - the Wallabies are a powerful, creative attacking team.

While his goal kicking is great his on field kicking game is not up to the standard the Wallabies need - however I wouldn't put the challange past him to get it right (but a specialist would be preferred - imagine Johns at the helm!).

I suspect he's intelligent and capable enough to muster a kicking game that will suffice. In fact, most of his kicking in his time on the field thus far has been perfectly adequate.

Our forwards are tip top in comparison. The Wallabies are dying with their backs!

Obviously we're not watching the same team. IMHO, the forwards are steadily improving, but yet to be tested against the quality forward packs in world rugby (having played only one match against the French with anything like a first-choice pack); while there's absolutely nothing wrong with the backs - their problems (that I referred to yesterday) with countering quicker, more agile attackers aside - when they actually get their hands on the ball.

That is too broad and undefined, dammit!

No it's not. It's the fundamental problem that has haunted the Wallabies for decades. Our relatively small pool of top-class players has always meant that we don't have more than a couple of choices per position. Sometimes we only have once choice. The key to this paragraph being the words "top-class".

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
I saw that in the highlights last night and lost all of the respect I'd gained for him over the past few weeks. In game it looked like he was just celebrating (prematurely as we now know ), but on closer inspection it did look as though it was a goad aimed directly at the crowd/cameras. Did the bottle-throwing begin just afterwards? Again I missed most of this due to poorly-timed (or well-timed if you look at it that way ) ad-breaks.

It struck me as provocative when I saw it during the game. Yes, the bottles started straight afterwards. There's fault on both sides.

A similar thing happened in the WI during last (?) seasons cricket (AFAIK the mention of cricket has not yet been outlawed by the R-TGTPIH disciplinary committee ) tour when certain members of the Australian team began acting as though they were playing in front of their own crowds. ie: Acting like jackasses. That may be a little strong perhaps but you get the point.
At home they can afford to do this. Away they can't.

No, cricket hasn't been outlawed. It is, after all, unlike the L-word, a game that takes some intelligence to play. So it's probably fair to say that cricket can be mentioned but only if to illustrate or counterpoint or whatever something to do with rugby.

I don't recall the W.I. incident to which you refer. But the Australian XI is legendary for its arrogance. Nothing would surprise me. Frankly, I don't think George's outburst was necessarily arrogance - while he can be terribly arrogant - I think it was more a spur of the moment reaction to an extraordinary situation (the comeback) in a massively-charged atmosphere. Again, there was fault on both sides.

[SuperSneak]

Is this game played with paddles and nets?

[ravagon]

And so the door is opened....

I thought you were tempting fate last time fin, what with all those comments about cheese and "thank god he doesn't post here" and all that...

[ravagon]

Originally posted by SuperSneak
Is this game played with paddles and nets?

Blasphemy!
Actually it isn't played with paddles and nets but then you yanks haven't really gotten your paws on it yet either ...

[finbar]

A small piece of advice, ravagon, if I may be so bold. When dealing with dribbling idiots, I find it best simply to ignore them. They soon get bored, wander off and annoy someone else.

[SuperSneak]

Wait, I remember...this was the one where the big controversey last year was over whether you were allowed to stick your thumb in someone's butthole, right?
Has that move been cleared yet?