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  • #31
    "What I am saying is that its unfair for me to have to go through all this because I am choosing to respect the laws of the USA."

    I understood what you were saying. Yes, life is unfair. But we can't stop progress just so that everything is fair to you.

    "Surely you can see that its wrong to give lawbreakers a free ride."

    I can see it very clearly. On the other hand, my sense of proportion indicates that it is of lesser importance to some other wrongs and indeed some goods.

    Do you wanna pick fruit for 12 hours a day in California?
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #32
      Originally posted by DanS
      "What I am saying is that its unfair for me to have to go through all this because I am choosing to respect the laws of the USA."

      I understood what you were saying. Yes, life is unfair. But we can't stop progress just so that everything is fair to you.
      Not just to me, but to every law abiding person living in America.
      "Surely you can see that its wrong to give lawbreakers a free ride."

      I can see it very clearly. On the other hand, my sense of proportion indicates that it is of lesser importance to some other wrongs and indeed some goods.

      Do you wanna pick fruit for 12 hours a day in California?
      Are you suggesting that is what I would be doing if not for illegal aliens?
      ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
      ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

      Comment

      • #33
        "Not just to me, but to every law abiding person living in America."

        Every law abiding person in America is also getting their compensations. Don't cry for us. Immigration, whether lawful or unlawful, is a huge boon economically.

        "Are you suggesting that is what I would be doing if not for illegal aliens?"

        Well, somebody would be doing it, if there were not enough illegal/legal aliens coming into the country.

        So I propose that in order to gain citizenship, you are an indentured servant for 6 years. You Cal, are to be a banana picker.
        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

        Comment

        • #34
          Illegal immigrants should be deported, border security should be increased and talk of amnesty should be outlawed.

          Those who are waiting to LEGALLY immigrate to the US have to wait even longer to get in because the status quo has been filled by illegal immigration.

          People who abide by the law should not be punished for doing so; people who break the laws should be, and immigrants should be required to learn English, IMO.

          And what of the gaps that will be created when the illegal workers are deported? Companies will realize that they have to raise salaries to get people to work for them.

          And how many of you commenting on this live in the US, anyway?

          Comment

          • #35
            "talk of amnesty should be outlawed"



            "And what of the gaps that will be created when the illegal workers are deported?"

            FYI, there would not be enough workers.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by DanS
              "Not just to me, but to every law abiding person living in America."

              Every law abiding person in America is also getting their compensations. Don't cry for us. Immigration, whether lawful or unlawful, is a huge boon economically.
              Think of what a greater boon it would be for national security and economically if we actually knew who was coming in and they all paid taxes.
              "Are you suggesting that is what I would be doing if not for illegal aliens?"

              Well, somebody would be doing it, if there were not enough illegal/legal aliens coming into the country.

              So I propose that in order to gain citizenship, you are an indentured servant for 6 years. You Cal, are to be a banana picker.

              I would stay in NZ if that was the case.
              ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
              ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

              Comment

              • #37
                The illegal crossing of 5 million people from one country to another has historically been called something other that "illegal immigration": it has been called invasion.

                I think that we should deport every single illegal immigrant in this country. Before they are deported, they should be registered. Once registered they should automatically be denied legal entrance to the country. If they are found to have again entered the country illegally, they should be shot. Illegal immigrants are a bane to our country. They disrespect our rule of law simply by being here. Moreover, many are linked to the drug trade or other illegal activity. They fraud our welfare system and take away jobs that rightfully belong to legal citizens. How many terrorists in the U.S. are illegal immigrants? It is time for us to take a stand against these people.
                "The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796

                Comment

                • #38
                  "Think of what a greater boon it would be for national security and economically if we actually knew who was coming in and they all paid taxes."

                  No greater, economically.

                  The majority appear to be paying their payroll taxes by making up a social security number and paying toward it. By doing this, they contribute, while being unable to take advantage of the benefits that normally accrue.

                  Further, about half of all workers pay no federal income taxes. It seems likely that most illegal immigrants would fall into that category.

                  As to the national security, that's why we're even caring in the first place. Two years ago, nobody gave a toss that we found an extra 10 million people within our borders. It was the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil arrangement I talk about above.
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Originally posted by DanS
                    "Think of what a greater boon it would be for national security and economically if we actually knew who was coming in and they all paid taxes."

                    No greater, economically.

                    The majority appear to be paying their payroll taxes by making up a social security number and paying toward it. By doing this, they contribute, while being unable to take advantage of the benefits that normally accrue.
                    Benefits? Are you referring to receiving SS when you get old? SS will be bankrupt before I get old enough to benefit from it.
                    Further, about half of all workers pay no federal income taxes. It seems likely that most illegal immigrants would fall into that category.
                    ...and if they were here legally they would be paying federal income taxes. How is this not a boon economically?
                    As to the national security, that's why we're even caring in the first place. Two years ago, nobody gave a toss that we found an extra 10 million people within our borders. It was the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil arrangement I talk about above.
                    Unfortunately we arent caring enough now either. You do realize that by granting amnesty to all illegal immigrants in the US you would also be granting amnesty to members of Al Qaeda who live here don't you?
                    ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                    ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      To be clear, I think the solution is to give a broad amnesty, increase our border and other internal security, but do away with these silly immigration quotas.

                      This is really the only way to do it.
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        DanS: Wouldn't setting up a guest worker program rather than mass amnesty be more politically palatable at this point in time? It would also have the advantage of avoiding insulting the people who immigrated legally.
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                        • #42
                          "and if they were here legally they would be paying federal income taxes."

                          No they wouldn't. They don't make enough money. As I stated, only about half of workers pay federal income taxes.

                          "Are you referring to receiving SS when you get old? SS will be bankrupt before I get old enough to benefit from it."

                          There are lots of other benefits. Like disability benefits and death benefits for dependants.

                          "You do realize that by granting amnesty to all illegal immigrants in the US you would also be granting amnesty to members of Al Qaeda who live here don't you?"

                          Why would this be so? I propose that we spend a lot more in background checks for prospective citizens.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DanS
                            FYI, there would not be enough workers.
                            The availible openings could be filled by increasing the number of legal migrants into the country. You know... people who aren't criminals.
                            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Originally posted by DanS
                              To be clear, I think the solution is to give a broad amnesty, increase our border and other internal security, but do away with these silly immigration quotas.
                              By giving broad amnesty you will make it much easier for terrorists already living in the US, and easier for terrorists outside the US because the ones granted amnesty will be able to sponsor relatives to get them in legally.

                              What immigration quotas are you referring to?
                              ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                              ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Oerdin


                                The availible openings could be filled by increasing the number of legal migrants into the country. You know... people who aren't criminals.
                                Why not fill those jobs with unemployed citizens? Those jobs could help the U.S. with its welfare to workfare situation. Why shouldn't we be able to fill those jobs? Is the U.S. unemployment rate at .001%? No. Fill the illegals' jobs with Americans.
                                "The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796

                                Comment

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