Are you for or against capital punishment?

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Che is a realist. Why are the likes of you so quick to resort to insult and saying that those who don't agree with your worldview life in a 'dreamworld'. Construct some rational arguments, because he has a valid point!

Where are Che's "rational arguments"? Why are the likes of you so quick to say that I thrive only on insult? What is his valid point? If I read one, I'll argue it. All I saw were ad hominem attacks, so I answered them thusly.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by paiktis22
nationalist you're very funny.

go and see if they let you torture the man who did that.

that's the laws you want.

What?

Hey, if they'd let me I'd torture him. I think that he has lost his rights as a human.

Does this answer your question/statement?

[Provost Harrison]

I've just told you his 'valid point' ad nauseum, why should the state exact revenge on behalf of the bereaved, when their function should be reform and the safety of the public.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Che is a realist. Why are the likes of you so quick to resort to insult and saying that those who don't agree with your worldview life in a 'dreamworld'. Construct some rational arguments, because he has a valid point!

he is a realist by accusing me of being a violent sicko that needs to be locked up!? If anyone was quick to insult, it was he, my friend.

[Provost Harrison]

I am speaking for myself. Che still has a very salient point though, and he is a realist, hence calling you a sicko. He probably had good reason. But just be grateful he didn't want to torture you

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I've just told you his 'valid point' ad nauseum, why should the state exact revenge on behalf of the bereaved, when their function should be reform and the safety of the public.

Reform!? If someone could murder someone with the knowledge that they could be 'reformed' and put back in the streets, they might do so. There is little if no deterant what so ever to murder through reform. By detering muder through CP, then te government IS protecting the public.

[chequita guevara]

nationalist, you're a moron. Kramerman said, "Death is a cake walk compared to what I would do if put in a room with a sicko like that..." I understand full well that the father of a child who was raped and murdered would feel that way. Kramerman, however, has no right to feel that way, let alone act upon it. As it turns out, he was just posturing to look like a man as opposed to saying something that he truely feels.

As for the slippery slope, we've seen over and over again, once you open up the door, once you say, that a group is unworthy of protection, it isn't at all hard to expand that group. It happens almost every single time.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I am speaking for myself. Che still has a very salient point though, and he is a realist, hence calling you a sicko. He probably had good reason.

he is a realist for calling me a sicko over, wanting to torture a murderer/pediphile/rapist (but not seriously wanting too), but the M/P/R is not a sicko? I see the rational arguement in that...

But just be grateful he didn't want to torture you

I hope that was a sarcastic remark. It made no sense to me. Why would he want to torture me, a perfect law abbiding, productive citizen of society? Becasue I wanted to, in fantasy, torture a murderous pedepfile for his horrible deed? Please tell me that wasnt a serious remark.

[nationalist]

That doesn't seem to be his point at all. Let me quote him.

"You are the kind of peole this world needs to be protected from"

Doesn't seem like a rational argument here.

"Why, was your little girl raped and murdered? How I might feel about a person who injured me directly, and about a person who has not affected my in any way are two different things.

The sad fact is, you are almost as disgusting a person, because you enjoy the thought of committing torture. You rationalize it away by claiming that these are unworthy people, but the fact is, if you can torture them, you can torture anyone. You're ****ing sick. The world needs to be protected from sick ****s like you."

This statement has two parts. 1st: Why should anyone care that strongly about something that doesn't directly affect him. It didn't happen to me, so I don't think that the man should be tortured.

2nd: Since it doesn't want me to torture him, then it shouldn't make you want to torture him either. Since it does, then you must have something wrong with you. He hasn't done anything worth torture in my eyes, so he isn't deserving of torture. If you could torture him, then you could torture anyone. Therefore, you are sick.

This post also doesn't reflect your claim that he means:"why should the state exact revenge on behalf of the bereaved, when their function should be reform and the safety of the public."

However, your posts all are centered around this hypothesis. I think that you are sympathetic towards Che and his ideas, and therefore want to imbue his posts with your ideas. You disagree with me, so you want to make me out to be an aggressive idiot. I can have a discussion with you, but I am going to treat your arguments as yours and not as Che's.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kramerman
LIfe in US prisons is fairly cushy.

Says a wussy teen who doesn't know jack squat. You wouldn't last a week in prison. You'd be raped, constantly. The guards wouldn't protect you. You'd probably kill yourself to escape fairly quickly.

Prison changes people, and not for the better. Hence the 60% recidivism rate. Innocent people who go in and are later exonerated come out violent, depressed, and can barely function in society.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
nationalist, you're a moron. Kramerman said, "Death is a cake walk compared to what I would do if put in a room with a sicko like that..." I understand full well that the father of a child who was raped and murdered would feel that way. Kramerman, however, has no right to feel that way, let alone act upon it. As it turns out, he was just posturing to look like a man as opposed to saying something that he truely feels.

As for the slippery slope, we've seen over and over again, once you open up the door, once you say, that a group is unworthy of protection, it isn't at all hard to expand that group. It happens almost every single time.

WHY DO I HAVE NO RIGHT TO FEEL THAT WAY!? Should not everbody be outraged by such a deed? It sickens me that you are jumping on me for wanting to rough a friggin child killer. *sigh* I am sorry, but that freaking makes me sick to my stomach. I have every right, as does every potential father and citizen, to want to punish those who would wish to take my family away in such a horrible manner.

And it is quite hard to expand that group, in the USA anyway. You know how many rights protection people are out there who jump on the governments back foranything that may threaten our rights. Thats not including the press, who love to fry those politicians who try to do something corrupt. But it doesnt matter, like I said, cause I was never seriously advocating torture anyway.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

As for the slippery slope, we've seen over and over again, once you open up the door, once you say, that a group is unworthy of protection, it isn't at all hard to expand that group. It happens almost every single time.

Murderous criminals are unworthy of protection. They have made themselves that way solely by their actions. They are not determined by class, race, language, etc. They are grouped by their actions and by their actions alone. This is not the beginning of a slippery slope. This is upholding the rule of law. I support the execution of murderous criminals. I do not support the execution of Jews, Blacks, Whites, etc. There is a fundamental difference between the former and the latter. Saying that the execution of one will lead to the execution of the other is ludicrous.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Kramerman
he is a realist for calling me a sicko over, wanting to torture a murderer/pediphile/rapist (but not seriously wanting too), but the M/P/R is not a sicko? I see the rational arguement in that...

Well I won't call you a sicko personally, but believe me, I consider M/P/R to be a sickness. They need to be incarcerated for theirs and everyone else's protection. If they can be reformed, yes, but the chances are that no one could be ever confident enough to ever release them. To some degree there would seem very little worthwhile point in their existence, as the cost of incarceration would be extortionate over the years...besides my whole objection to capital punishment is regarding mistakes in the judicial system...my evaluation of the life of someone who could never be a functional part of society is very low, and hence my ambivalence to the whole issue...

[chequita guevara]

A friend of mine was nearly murdered by a community when his ex-girlfriend accused him of being a pedophile. That is what your "morality" leads to, vigilanteism against the innocent.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Kramerman


WHY DO I HAVE NO RIGHT TO FEEL THAT WAY!? Should not everbody be outraged by such a deed? It sickens me that you are jumping on me for wanting to rough a friggin child killer. *sigh* I am sorry, but that freaking makes me sick to my stomach. I have every right, as does every potential father and citizen, to want to punish those who would wish to take my family away in such a horrible manner.

Exactly, that is why I had a hard time comprehending what Che's argument even was until his previous post, which I still don't agree with. He isn't arguinging along the same lines as Provost. Why don't poeple have a right to be outraged about this? It is a horrendous crime. The fact that you totally don't care says something about you're character. But I forgot, you are a Communist Realist And you say that I am the moron