Kaliningrad

[Serb]

I wouldn't call Pekka or even Heresson fanatics. Here was Heresson's countryman- Luk...that was the guy...just amazing, a true example.
Well actually now I think that it was Heresson's DL. Am I right Heresson?



And guys, please stay on topic. The author of this thread saw it as Russia-bashing thread when he started it, not Heresson-bashing.

[Rasbelin]

Off-topic...

You still have a typo in your sig, Serb.

[Serb]

where? It could be only: David, Floyd, Apolyton or fuerher. The rest is DF words. Please, tell me how type word "fuerher"properly. To my shame I don't know German, and to be honest English too

[Harovan]

Führer

[Serb]

Thanks

Perhaps it's time to remove this sig? I guess I've tortued David enough

[Heresson]

Well, if you go back far enough, all of Europe was Celtic. Should we give Prussia to the Irish?

First of all, not all Europe. There were Celts in Silesia probably, but never in Prussia.
Secundly, Irish are not descendants of the Celts that lived in entire Europe, but only of those that lived in Ireland. If all Italians died out, would Romanians claim for their lands?

Their so-called "regular" formations were defeated within a couple of months since second war started. If by "can't win a war " you mean that we can't win war vs. guys which ways of fight wars based on such things as explosions on markets, blow-up of apartment buildings, kidnaping civilians and childrens and as they call it -"unique military operations" like capture of hundreds of hostages in Mosow's theater, then yes, we are unable to win such "war", yet.
Perhaps you know who is able?
Israel can stop suicide bombers? The president of USA could guaranty that Sept. 11 will never happen again?
I doubt. So, shut-up.

Americans aren't fighting with a state. Israelis don't have free hand to deal with Palestinians and unlike Russians, they aren't fighting with mass rapes, killing accidental people and cutting off electricity from refugees' camps. Well, they do fight naughty, but not as much as You.

A first step would be the integration of Poland in the European Union. Although I admit, that nationalists like Heresson are a big obstacle.

I do not consider myself a nationalist.
Serb is a nationalist for sure because He thinks that glory of mother Russia is something more important than independance of Tchechenia or docent treating
of its citizens. If You are unable to see difference between criticising Russian nationalism and backwardness and being Polish nationalist, please
do not post in this thread until You understand it.

May be we should give Poland a few more years to develop and educate their citizens, especially the young ones. In the 30s, Germany was full of people thinking alike, and we all know how it ended.

Comparing me with German nationalists or nazis
of 30s is just being a moron. Give me some proof that I wish to attack some state, that I question our borders
and demand changing them, that I with to do something with national/religional minorities. Are You nuts?

Today most Germans, except of a small bunch of flag-waving morons, got over the loss of Silesia, Pommerania and Eastern Prussia and also don't care about Alsace and Lorraine anymore. In a couple of years all this will be European, and national differences will matter less with the time. Poland would be wise to prepare its citizens to be Europeans instead of flag waving nationalists. "Europe" means more than receiving billions of Euros for subsidies and infrastructure help and flooding the continent with cheap potatoes.

You are ignorant in this point as well. if You don't know it, according to the EU propositions, well, the first ones, we would pay twice more on agricultural politics than receive. Moreover, most of this that we would receive
are funds that may be given or may not, these aren't funds given directly to Poland. If we do not manage to make use of them in time, they return to the budget. And no-one was ever able to use them all, and we have never been doing it before, so the money that EU gives us is in fact even smaller than that. If You think that membership in EU means "billions of Euros" for Poland,
You are pure moron.

Heresson should drop the case of Kaliningrad; it's a waste of time and you won't get more €€€ from the EU because of that.

What the hell are You talking about???
I'm not demanding Królewiec/Kaliningrad for Poland.
Look at the start of the thread to see what it is about.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Heresson

What the hell are You talking about???

I simply said you should drop this issue.

I'm not demanding Królewiec/Kaliningrad for Poland.

Neither did I claim that.

Look at the start of the thread to see what it is about.

I've read it when the thread was first posted, so I do know what the topic is/was.

[Heresson]

I simply said you should drop this issue.

I did that. This thread was not brought back to life by me, but by someone else.

Neither did I claim that.

Sp what's your point on attacking me or comparing Królewiec to Karelia?

I've read it when the thread was first posted, so I do know what the topic is/was.

Sp again, why do You and others judge it as nationalistic or something?
If China did the same, I would post a similar thread.

[Serb]

Americans aren't fighting with a state. Israelis don't have free hand to deal with Palestinians and unlike Russians, they aren't fighting with mass rapes, killing accidental people and cutting off electricity from refugees' camps. Well, they do fight naughty, but not as much as You.

We don't fight vs. state too. We fight vs. bandits, kidnapers, slavers, drugdealers, religious fanatics, extremists and terrorists- the guys your, western media calls a honorable freedom fighters. As for notorious Russian atrocities, perhaps you was there and saw it with your own eyes? Look who told you all this terrible stories- a banch of bandits who proved to be terrorists.
Any one in straight mind will ask yourself twice could I trust to stories of people who proved to be terrorists, perhaps it's fairy tales to gain my support?
But you guys ready to defend every bastard, murder or butcher who shouts "I fight for freedom(freedom to commite crimes), because I'm opressed (by punishment for those crimes in accordance with law). Yes, I kill, but I kill monsters as you might see on this (Photoshop) picture or this (made in Kabul) video and I have a witness (a slaver or kidnapper) and more important it's Russian monsters, so you know guys that they are evil I don't have to convince you"
They always were terrorists, much earlier than Nord-Ost you didn't want to notice this and still don't. They blow-up civilian buildings in one of the Europian capitals? Blow-up bombs in markets and underground passages? Took hundrens of hostages? Kidnap people? Commite slavery? Torture people like nazi's would feel ashemed- cut-off people genitalies, fingers, heads, beat them to death, cut throats? BIG DEAL- they are freedom fighters, rebels, gunmans they had no choice...One could ask "Are you sure?"
- Yep. They tell us!!!We saw (photoshop) pics, saw (made by themselves or their Afghan masters) videos and heard their witnesses (the same murders). How we couldn't trust them?

I do not consider myself a nationalist.
Serb is a nationalist for sure because He thinks that glory of mother Russia is something more important than independance of Tchechenia or docent treating
of its citizens.

Glory? Are you nuts?
S E C U R I T Y is the key word- security of all citizens of Russian Federation regardless of nationality. They declared war on us not vise versa. They gained independence in 1996, since this moment all this was about fight vs. one of the largest bases of world terrorists on this planet (sure Afghanistan was the largest, Tchechnya is second large). Those guys attacked us officialy in 1999 when their bandit "army" invaded Dagestan (in fact, they never stoped to attack us covertly. They killed thousands people during three years of their independense) not otherwise.

If You are unable to see difference between criticising Russian nationalism and backwardness and being Polish nationalist, please

backwardness
In other words Polish nationalists are pretty advanced in compare with Russian. One of your typical fascinating statements Poles are superior in everything from religion to socks manufacturing

What the hell are You talking about???
I'm not demanding Królewiec/Kaliningrad for Poland.

Really?
Perhaps I should post a couple of your most brilliant quotes (from your PM to me of course well perhaps it's a bit unfair, but...) where you suggest that Poland should took everything up to Ural mountins and "generously" left Vladivostok for Russians?

Look at the start of the thread to see what it is about.

Ok..as you wish...we opens page one...and what we could see...OMG the man speaks the truth, he never demanded Królewiec/Kaliningrad for Poland!!!

Originally posted by Heresson
The only thing that can be done is to give Królewiec back to Poland, of course.

p.s. I have to go unfortunately. See you in Monday. try to find some new anti-Russian crap. You have a special gift, a really brilliant talent for this.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Serb
backwardness
In other words Polish nationalists are pretty advanced in compare with Russian.

Poland has the most advanced nationalists of the World, didn't you know that, Serb? I still don't understand why you are even arguing with this guy... perhaps I really will nominate you for the troll of the year!

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Poland has the most advanced nationalists of the World, didn't you know that, Serb?

I know now, they have serious hmm...how to say it? a penis size issue perhaps?

I still don't understand why you are even arguing with this guy... perhaps I really will nominate you for the troll of the year!

Somebody have to do it and actually I'm bored and have nothing to do right now anyway

[Heresson]

We don't fight vs. state too. We fight vs. bandits, kidnapers, slavers, drugdealers, religious fanatics, extremists and terrorists

You mean Russian army?

- the guys your, western media calls a honorable freedom fighters. As for notorious Russian atrocities, perhaps you was there and saw it with your own eyes?

Only on photos, right, but have You been there? And can You prove that information that You are given in Russia is true? No country spreads bad info about itself.

Look who told you all this terrible stories- a banch of bandits who proved to be terrorists.

They didn't mean to kill those people. If your president negotiated with them, perhaps all could have been saved.

Any one in straight mind will ask yourself twice could I trust to stories of people who proved to be terrorists, perhaps it's fairy tales to gain my support?

Russian infos are much less objective. UN observers don't deny Tchechenian claims.

But you guys ready to defend every bastard, murder or butcher who shouts "I fight for freedom(freedom to commite crimes), because I'm opressed (by punishment for those crimes in accordance with law). Yes, I kill, but I kill monsters as you might see on this (Photoshop) picture or this (made in Kabul) video and I have a witness (a slaver or kidnapper) and more important it's Russian monsters, so you know guys that they are evil I don't have to convince you"

How do You explain the disappearance of people? The stories of people that survived? Are they all false?
Anyway, You are doing just the same thing; You are painting all the Tchechenians as bandits, slavers, terrorists...

They always were terrorists, much earlier than Nord-Ost

Read my words above.

you didn't want to notice this and still don't. They blow-up civilian buildings in one of the Europian capitals?

It was never proven that it was Tchechenian work.
Anyway don't You bombard civil objects in Tchechenia?
Look at the photos, at the ruins of Grozny... Did they do it themselves?

Blow-up bombs in markets and underground passages? Took hundrens of hostages? Kidnap people? Commite slavery? Torture people like nazi's would feel ashemed- cut-off people genitalies, fingers, heads, beat them to death, cut throats? BIG DEAL- they are freedom fighters, rebels, gunmans they had no choice...One could ask "Are you sure?"

From what I know, many of the things named above are commited ON Tchechenians, by Russians.

- Yep. They tell us!!!We saw (photoshop) pics, saw (made by themselves or their Afghan masters) videos and heard their witnesses (the same murders). How we couldn't trust them?

The same as we could trust Russians. And if two are quarelling and two are not very reliable, it is more probable that the weaker one is right.

Glory? Are you nuts?
S E C U R I T Y is the key word- security of all citizens of Russian Federation regardless of nationality.
They declared war on us not vise versa. They gained independence in 1996, since this moment all this was about fight vs. one of the largest bases of world terrorists on this planet (sure Afghanistan was the largest, Tchechnya is second large). Those guys attacked us officialy in 1999 when their bandit "army" invaded Dagestan (in fact, they never stoped to attack us covertly. They killed thousands people during three years of their independense) not otherwise.

I know, there were Poles kidnapped by them as well.
that's how the situation where the war rules looks like.
And it's Russia that attacked Tchechenia. And if You wanted safety for your citizens, You could not start the war.

backwardness
In other words Polish nationalists are pretty advanced in compare with Russian. One of your typical fascinating statements Poles are superior in everything from religion to socks manufacturing

blah blah blah

Really?
Perhaps I should post a couple of your most brilliant quotes (from your PM to me of course well perhaps it's a bit unfair, but...) where you suggest that Poland should took everything up to Ural mountins and "generously" left Vladivostok for Russians?

That was just a joke, and You know it well...

[Heresson]

I'm boring

Yes You are.

how to say it? a penis size issue perhaps?

Not at all.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Serb
I doubt this.
Tell me more.

It's actually true. Both the Soviets and the Americans built their early space programs up captured Nazi technology and used German scientists who had been, *ahem*, convinced to take part.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson


You mean Russian army?

Russian army is absolutely legal formation, with its rules and codex of behavior, which is far away from image that Hollywood movies are trying to portray. All who broke rules and commit crimes face the military tribunal and receive punishment in accordance with laws of our country. The guys you defend don’t know moral principles. They are bloody murders. In accordance with their fanatical beliefs the many non-believers they slain, the better. And they don’t care who are those non-believer- children, women or elders. There is no such thing for them as war related crime, because their normal way how they fight wars are total crime by definition. Perhaps you didn’t saw video how Maskhadov award his so-called defense minister Basayev for capture over 500 pregnant woment and newborn children hostages in hospital of Russian city. (when they were already independent of course) or how he award Hattab after explosions of apartment buildings in few Russian cities including our capital. It’s their normal way how to fight war vs. unbelievers. They see nothing wrong with that.

Only on photos, right, but have You been there? And can You prove that information that You are given in Russia is true? No country spreads bad info about itself.

I wasn’t. My best friend was. I prefer to trust him, but to be honest he don’t talk much about this.
Perhaps it is you guys who never saw videos HOW those bastards torture their victims. Cute-off throat is damn lucky way to escape all kinds of sufferings they offer. I guess even nazi would feel shocked if they saw such executions. This is not the type of show, which people with heart problems should see. I saw a couple of edited versions where most notorious moments were cencored. It’s really notorious to see laughing, “mans” who beating and torturing tied victims, then cut their victims fingers and then cut throat or cut off heads. They liked to make such videos as prove of their intentions for future victims of kidnap and as prove for their masters that they eliminated ordered victim (they stole many high ranked Russian military and civilian officials).
Go ahead defend them, freedom lover. They tortued your countrymans as well as many other foreigners too.

They didn't mean to kill those people. If your president negotiated with them, perhaps all could have been saved.

Oh really, You gonna be sh*ting me. They just placed about 30 small bombs, two really big boms and weared 2kg each bombs on themselves, said on TV chanel Al-Jazira that they gonna meet Allah soon and started to shoot hostages…no sure they didn’t want to harm anybody…they were nice guys with good intentions, stupid Russians just misunderstood them.

Russian infos are much less objective. UN observers don't deny Tchechenian claims.

Which UN observers? As for Russian info…fine you prefer to trust to murders, hostage takers and terrorists, but not in any case to Russians. Fine it talks much about degree of trust between West and us. Partially it’s our own fault, but I still don’t see how ony one could trust to people who proved themselves that they are terrorists, than to government of democratically country.

How do You explain the disappearance of people? The stories of people that survived? Are they all false? Anyway, You are doing just the same thing;You are painting all the Tchechenians as bandits, slavers, terrorists...

Disappearance could be explained pretty easy. There was SLAVERY in Tchechnya for three years of their independence. They stole thousands of citizens of Russian Federation from thousand miles away from Chechnya. What makes you think that they didn’t used locals as slaves?
How do you explained that during three years of their independence more Chechens fled from Chechnya, from Maskhadov’s Vahhabite regime, than during both wars when there was active military actions, gunfire, explosions, bombardments, etc?
As for painting Chechen PEOPLE as bandits, you perfectly know that I mean actual bandits, regardless of nationality, not entire people. Among Chechens, in their ‘regiments” also fought mercenaries from Arab countries, Baltic States, Ukraine and even Russians. I don’t care about their nationality, they are sick sadists who committed notorious crimes, btw against Chechen people too.

It was never proven that it was Tchechenian work.
Anyway don't You bombard civil objects in Tchechenia?
Look at the photos, at the ruins of Grozny... Did they do it themselves?

It was clearly proven to be their work. The group who made it is determinated, some of them slain in battle, two iirc captured and in Russian jails now, one is hiding in Georgia. The guys who ordered this are Basyev (their so-called defense minster, still hiding somewhere, but have one leg less now) and Hattab- read very carefully now- the STUDENT and emissary of who do you think? Osama bin Laden. No sh!tting and no kidding HIS STUDENT, a friend and comrade in belief and Jihad. (Eliminated now)

From what I know, many of the things named above are commited ON Tchechenians, by Russians.

I don’t get it. Committed by whom? ON Tchechenians? Who the hell those guys? If you mean that Russian army has such sadists, then it’s bull****. I’ve read the same bullsh!t reports of ‘human right organizations’ about Americans, how they tortured Taliban prisoners in Afghanistan (spreading acid on them etc)
Only a seek bandits who don’t have laws, and because of this don’t fear punishment for such crimes could act like this. I believe in American army there is such thing as military tribunal, as well in the Russian army. Army it’s institution of state, which acts in accordance with laws of this state. By our laws such things are horrible crimes, which punished very harsh. I believe the same in American army. So if you ask me who do you think more probably could committee such crimes a soldiers of regular army, or bandits who not even don’t have laws, but more in accordance with their corrupted beliefs and their sick Sharia law such thing as torturing of nonbeliever counts as normal thing, I will answer the second guys.

The same as we could trust Russians. And if two are quarelling and two are not very reliable, it is more probable that the weaker one is right.

Great logic . Just ****ing great. You know this statement perfectly describe west behavior toward Russia- you guys are bullies, we know you are bad, so we would trust to any murder (who admit HIMSELF that he is MURDER, like their so-called president Maskhadov admitted that he ordered to took hostages in Nord-Ost), and any fairy tales of this MURDER then would trust Russians.
JUST ****ING GREAT LOGIC!!!
In accordance with your logic ObL is right too, because it’s obvious that he is MUCH weaker then USA. In accordance with your logic every one who attacked or will ever attack USA or Russia are nice guys, because they are WEAKER and it doesn’t really matter how many thousands civilians those guys will kill, they are weaker, which means they are right!

I know, there were Poles kidnapped by them as well.
that's how the situation where the war rules looks like.
And it's Russia that attacked Tchechenia. And if You wanted safety for your citizens, You could not start the war.

What a pathetic bullsh!t.
When we attacked Chechnya?
Are you blind as dog on your avatar?
Esp for you time line:
1996 a peace treaty signed between Maskhadov and security secretary of RF Lebed. The same year ALL military and police forces WITHDRAWN from Chechnya. They won. They could live like they want, Ralph we didn’t have even a small thumb in Chechnya during this period for three years they were ABSOLUTELY and TOTALLY uncontrolled by Moscow. They lived by their own Sharia law (absolutely different from Russian laws, we don’t have such things as physical punishments, amputations, stone to death or cut throat as punishment for crimes in our laws) had their own government (absolutely different from Russian type. I mean they had dictatorship, while we elect our president), flag, army and all attributes of independence. Their emissaries were and still are in many countries of the world, seating in their embassies. Their so-called president kissed with Margaret Thatcher and had meetings many high ranked officials of western countries, including USA of course. They had slavery, while we abolished it centuries ago, etc. They were free to do everything they wish. We could control them.
During those three years in Russia were about 2000 explosions, today 400 are 100% to be terrorists attack- their attacks. Next, they had several raids on Russian cities with capture of hostages like with pregnant woman and children as I mentioned above. Next, in 1999 here were several building explosions in Russian cities, two in Moscow, hundreds of people died.
Only for this we had right to fight them, BECAUSE by ALL POSSIBLE STANDARTS THIS CALLS A DECLARATION OF WAR.
But those guys went further, in 1999 THEY INVADED Dagestan, a neighbor Russian republic. They started to expand and launched an invasion lead PERSONALY by their so-called defense minister- Basyev, and of course by ObL student Hattab
Now explain to me please WHY do you think WE attacked them?

Heresson, I wouldn't disscuss this issue anymore, because I said all this many time and sounds like broken recorder. I'm tire to
You guys don't trust us-fine your problem. We are able to defend by ourselves. But by doing this, we actually defend you- Europe too. Defend from spread of religious extremist teachings. Ah...nevermind, you would never understand this anyway, at least untill those guys will hit you. This is sad.

That was just a joke, and You know it well...

You repeat this joke so many times that it’s hard to determinate when you are joking and where you aren’t.
Your last offer was iirc- Russia gives Kaliningrad to Poland. Poland graciously let Russians to have St. Petersburg.

Btw, I was bluffing, I erase all your PM as long as I finished to read them, so I was unable to bring a proper quote if needed. I just took your words from my memory, but you piss off your pants when you’ve realized that I could inform Apolyton society about all your “jokes” and brilliant plans and bought this bluff as baby boy

1:0


P.S. Don’t warry pm is pm. No one will ever know about your plans of world conquest
Right now, Novgorod Republic leading by Serb is going to erase sad kingdom of traitors of Slavic brotherhood from the map, after I’ll erase your Lithuanian cousins of course (Hi Saras). In my EU2 game of course.

Consider this, as my little revenge. Btw, your sad kingdom was burned twice in my MTW games. I hope you feel much better now. I believe it was my duty to inform you about those events
Last note, Polish retainers sucks, as well as Lithuanian woodsmen, Boyars rules.