Olympic ice skating fixer busted

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The American organizers have absolutely nothing to do with the result. Zero, zip, nada.

That did and does remain in the hands of the IOC and the ISU.

I meant not the American organizers in particular. They did a great job. I meant the environment that occurred around the event. It's not a fault of the organizers. It's a fault of the host country as a whole.

To answer your question though... If the situations were reversed I'd be happy to see the Russians given gold.

I don't doubt that. Yet my question was a little bit different...

BTW, no one has taken gold away from the Russian skaters either, since they themselves have done no wrong.

Awarding the second gold was an insult to the Russian couple. Besides it naturally devaluated the original gold in their possession.

[Asher]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Awarding the second gold was an insult to the Russian couple. Besides it naturally devaluated the original gold in their possession.

That's the breaks.

You don't think it was insulting for the other couple to be given silver when they put in a Gold performance? That's even more insulting.

The Russians only have that Russian Mob Boss to blame for their situation. They should be happy they have Gold now and not silver like they should.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Asher
Only because of the news that the judges cannot be trusted, after it came out there was corruption.

It started before that, namely at the very moment the NBC commentators were broadcasting their shock in the air.

It was a minor story, but the news blew it up into something big because it was a slow news day.

So, if it was blown into a big one, it was a big story.

And I suppose the Russian mob boss who confessed to doing it on tape was subjected to enormous external pressure to do so as well?

It's amazing how easily one clings to a doubtful information if it suits one's purposes (I don't mean you personally, Asher).

I answered it twice.
You just want me to say "No". I say "Yes" twice and it's not answering it.

You answered twice, but not exactly the question I asked.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Asher
You don't think it was insulting for the other couple to be given silver when they put in a Gold performance? That's even more insulting.

Unfortunately, that happens in sports. (Not that I recognize that the Canadian couple skated better -- it's actually irrrelevant to our present discussion as I see it).

[Asher]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
It started before that, namely at the very moment the NBC commentators were broadcasting their shock in the air.

So would you be suggesting that because of the NBC commentators, a Russian mob boss was caught on tape admitting to fixing it, and a French judge confessed to being corrupt (even though she wasn't!) because of pressure.

So, if it was blown into a big one, it was a big story.

Not in the eyes of everyone watching it.
News people try to make minor stories big stories on slow news days. That's how it is.

It's amazing how easily one clings to a doubtful information if it suits one's purposes (I don't mean you personally, Asher).

So suddenly a taped recording of a confession is doubtful information.
And what absolute fact do you have discounting it?

[Loif]

This corruption in figure skating didn't just start in Salt Lake. It's been going on for years and everybody knows it. It's turned figure skating into a farce. I think skating should be banned from the Olympics until the international skating union can get their crap together and figure things out. Switch judges every couple of events. Don't let judges know which competitions they will be judging until the day before. That way it would be harder for them to make deals with other countries to throw votes their way.

There was a Canadian judge who mentioned something about corrupt judges after the previous Olympics. What do you think happened to her? She was banned from juding. Now how is that logical?

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
I suggest that everyone here honestly answer the following question. Imagine that the roles are reversed. Namely, the Russian couple performs exactly as the Canadian one, and vice versa, and the gold goes to the Canadians. Then the question is (actually it's a number of interrelated questions):

Would there result a big deal out of it? Would the media and the public be outraged to such an extent? Would the second gold be awarded (to the Russian couple in this case)?

I hope the answer of all reasonable people will be NO.

But if so, what are we really talking about? All your pathetic talk about justice and what is rightful is just ... pathetic.

Justice only for chosen people is injustice. A uniform application of an intrinsic injustice to everyone is more just than justice for the chosen only.

Sorry, I thought I had answered the question, but I misinterpreted it. Had the Canadians been the ones to trip up, and still gotten the gold, I would have said that the Russians were robbed. Had this been followed up with the French judge saying she had been pressured to give the Canadians high marks, the scandal that followed would have been much the same. It might even be worse, because people would start pointing at a France Quebec link that may or may not exist, and put any instance of the one country judging the other in doubt.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Unfortunately, that happens in sports. (Not that I recognize that the Canadian couple skated better -- it's actually irrrelevant to our present discussion as I see it).

No. It is THE relevant point. That 'irrelevant' fact you mention is the reason for the whole fuss. Now I understand. If you deny that the Canadian couple performed better then it is quite natural to protest the controversy around the awarding of the medals. Yes, that makes sense. I guess that is where I was going with my question to Serb about whether he had eyes or not.

You keep going on about your question. suggest that everyone here honestly answer the following question. Imagine that the roles are reversed. Namely, the Russian couple performs exactly as the Canadian one...
Well, your question is irrelevant. The Russians did not skate as well as the Canadians. They wiped out. There was no equal performance to choose from. The people who were obviously better to any eyes in the building got jobbed out of a gold medal. That is the relevant fact.

Would it make you feel better to know that the shame is not on Russia? The shame is on that joke of a sport they have called figure skating for many years.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


I meant not the American organizers in particular. They did a great job. I meant the environment that occurred around the event. It's not a fault of the organizers. It's a fault of the host country as a whole.

You should stay away from airports.

[Serb]

Originally posted by notyoueither
If you deny that the Canadian couple performed better then it is quite natural to protest the controversy around the awarding of the medals. Yes, that makes sense.

Of course our couple was better. Their programm was MUCH COMPLICATED then yours.

I my self could do a couple of steps on ice with IDEAL performance. Does it mean that I could receive Gold for my ideal performance?
EDIT: Also, I could call to somebody and describe how I fixed the results of last president elections in USA. Does it mean that Bush was elected illegaly?

[Serb]

Oops... double post.

[DanS]

Vagabond: To answer your question directly, I don't think that anyone would expect the Canadians to cheat. But nobody bats an eye when the French or the Russians do it.

The situation is just too plausible on the one hand and implausible on the other. Ever heard of the Canadia mafia? Would you be scared if the Canadian mob was after you?

The Russians picked the wrong people to cheat. The Canadians are a bunch of choirboys. If y'all would have picked the Americans, there wouldn't have been a second gold handed out.

[KrazyHorse]

Would you be scared if the Canadian mob was after you?

I would be, if they were the Hells Angels. Those ****ers are crazy...

[KrazyHorse]

BTW, Vag, the US is interested in actually prosecuting this mob boss. That means they think they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did what they've accused him of.

Oh, and it's possible that with this new info the medals might be redistributed...and probably not in Russia's favour.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/08/03/skate_medals020803

[DaShi]

Originally posted by DanS
Vagabond: To answer your question directly, I don't think that anyone would expect the Canadians to cheat. But nobody bats an eye when the French or the Russians do it.

The situation is just too plausible on the one hand and implausible on the other. Ever heard of the Canadia mafia? Would you be scared if the Canadian mob was after you?

The Russians picked the wrong people to cheat. The Canadians are a bunch of choirboys. If y'all would have picked the Americans, there wouldn't have been a second gold handed out.

Well, Kwan slipped on her own, and there was already too much pressure from the other incidents.