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  • #91
    I'll just post some evidence.

    1. Galaxies wind themselves up too fast
    The Earth is Not Millions of Years Old
    Evidence For a Young World
    Dr. D Russel Humphreys

    A dozen natural phenomena which conflict with the evolutionary idea that the universe is billions of years old. This booklet makes a great witnessing tool.

    MORE INFO / PURCHASE ONLINE

    The stars of our own galaxy, the Milky Way, rotate about the galactic center with different speeds, the inner ones rotating faster than the outer ones. The observed rotation speeds are so fast that if our galaxy were more than a few hundred million years old, it would be a featureless disc of stars instead of its present spiral shape.1

    Yet our galaxy is supposed to be at least 10 billion years old. Evolutionists call this ‘the winding-up dilemma’, which they have known about for fifty years. They have devised many theories to try to explain it, each one failing after a brief period of popularity. The same ‘winding-up’ dilemma also applies to other galaxies.

    For the last few decades the favored attempt to resolve the dilemma has been a complex theory called ‘density waves’.1 The theory has conceptual problems, has to be arbitrarily and very finely tuned, and lately has been called into serious question by the Hubble Space Telescope’s discovery of very detailed spiral structure in the central hub of the ‘Whirlpool’ galaxy, M51.2

    2. Comets disintegrate too quickly
    According to evolutionary theory, comets are supposed to be the same age as the solar system, about 5 billion years. Yet each time a comet orbits close to the sun, it loses so much of its material that it could not survive much longer than about 100,000 years. Many comets have typical ages of 10,000 years.3

    Evolutionists explain this discrepancy by assuming that (a) comets come from an unobserved spherical ‘Oort cloud’ well beyond the orbit of Pluto, (b) improbable gravitational interactions with infrequently passing stars often knock comets into the solar system, and (c) other improbable interactions with planets slow down the incoming comets often enough to account for the hundreds of comets observed.4 So far, none of these assumptions has been substantiated either by observations or realistic calculations.

    Lately, there has been much talk of the ‘Kuiper Belt’, a disc of supposed comet sources lying in the plane of the solar system just outside the orbit of Pluto. Even if some bodies of ice exist in that location, they would not really solve the evolutionists’ problem, since according to evolutionary theory the Kuiper Belt would quickly become exhausted if there were no Oort cloud to supply it. [For more information, see the detailed technical article Comets and the Age of the Solar System.]

    3. Not enough mud on the sea floor
    Each year, water and winds erode about 25 billion tons of dirt and rock from the continents and deposit it in the ocean.5 This material accumulates as loose sediment (i.e., mud) on the hard basaltic (lava-formed) rock of the ocean floor. The average depth of all the mud in the whole ocean, including the continental shelves, is less than 400 meters.6

    The main way known to remove the mud from the ocean floor is by plate tectonic subduction. That is, sea floor slides slowly (a few cm/year) beneath the continents, taking some sediment with it. According to secular scientific literature, that process presently removes only 1 billion tons per year. 6 As far as anyone knows, the other 24 billion tons per year simply accumulate. At that rate, erosion would deposit the present amount of sediment in less than 12 million years.

    Yet according to evolutionary theory, erosion and plate subduction have been going on as long as the oceans have existed, an alleged 3 billion years. If that were so, the rates above imply that the oceans would be massively choked with mud dozens of kilometers deep. An alternative (creationist) explanation is that erosion from the waters of the Genesis flood running off the continents deposited the present amount of mud within a short time about 5000 years ago.

    4. Not enough sodium in the sea
    Every year, river7 and other sources9 dump over 450 million tons of sodium into the ocean. Only 27% of this sodium manages to get back out of the sea each year.8,9 As far as anyone knows, the remainder simply accumulates in the ocean. If the sea had no sodium to start with, it would have accumulated its present amount in less than 42 million years at today’s input and output rates.9 This is much less than the evolutionary age of the ocean, 3 billion years. The usual reply to this discrepancy is that past sodium inputs must have been less and outputs greater. However, calculations which are as generous as possible to evolutionary scenarios still give a maximum age of only 62 million years.9 Calculations10 for many other sea water elements give much younger ages for the ocean. [See also Salty seas: Evidence for a young Earth.]

    5. The Earth’s magnetic field is decaying too fast
    The total energy stored in the Earth’s magnetic field has steadily decreased by a factor of 2.7 over the past 1000 years.11 Evolutionary theories explaining this rapid decrease, as well as how the Earth could have maintained its magnetic field for billions of years, are very complex and inadequate.

    A much better creationist theory exists. It is straightforward, based on sound physics, and explains many features of the field: its creation, rapid reversals during the Genesis flood, surface intensity decreases and increases until the time of Christ, and a steady decay since then.12 This theory matches paleomagnetic, historic, and present data.13 The main result is that the field’s total energy (not surface intensity) has always decayed at least as fast as now. At that rate the field could not be more than 10,000 years old.14 [See also The Earth’s magnetic field: Evidence that the Earth is young.]

    6. Many strata are too tightly bent
    In many mountainous areas, strata thousands of feet thick are bent and folded into hairpin shapes. The conventional geologic time scale says these formations were deeply buried and solidified for hundreds of millions of years before they were bent. Yet the folding occurred without cracking, with radii so small that the entire formation had to be still wet and unsolidified when the bending occurred. This implies that the folding occurred less than thousands of years after deposition.15

    7. Injected sandstone shortens geologic ‘ages’
    Strong geologic evidence16 exists that the Cambrian Sawatch sandstone — formed an alleged 500 million years ago — of the Ute Pass fault west of Colorado Springs was still unsolidified when it was extruded up to the surface during the uplift of the Rocky Mountains, allegedly 70 million years ago. It is very unlikely that the sandstone would not solidify during the supposed 430 million years it was underground. Instead, it is likely that the two geologic events were less than hundreds of years apart, thus greatly shortening the geologic time scale.

    8. Fossil radioactivity shortens geologic ‘ages’ to a few years
    Radiohalos are rings of color formed around microscopic bits of radioactive minerals in rock crystals. They are fossil evidence of radioactive decay.17 ‘Squashed’ Polonium-210 radiohalos indicate that Jurassic, Triassic, and Eocene formations in the Colorado plateau were deposited within months of one another, not hundreds of millions of years apart as required by the conventional time scale.18 ‘Orphan’ Polonium-218 radiohalos, having no evidence of their mother elements, imply either instant creation or drastic changes in radioactivity decay rates.19,20

    9. Helium in the wrong places
    All naturally-occurring families of radioactive elements generate helium as they decay. If such decay took place for billions of years, as alleged by evolutionists, much helium should have found its way into the Earth’s atmosphere. The rate of loss of helium from the atmosphere into space is calculable and small. Taking that loss into account, the atmosphere today has only 0.05% of the amount of helium it would have accumulated in 5 billion years.21 This means the atmosphere is much younger than the alleged evolutionary age. A study published in the Journal of Geophysical Research shows that helium produced by radioactive decay in deep, hot rocks has not had time to escape. Though the rocks are supposed to be over one billion years old, their large helium retention suggests an age of only thousands of years.22 [See also Blowing Old-Earth Belief Away: Helium gives evidence that the Earth is young.]

    10. Not enough stone age skeletons
    Evolutionary anthropologists say that the stone age lasted for at least 100,000 years, during which time the world population of Neanderthal and Cro-magnon men was roughly constant, between 1 and 10 million. All that time they were burying their dead with artefacts.23 By this scenario, they would have buried at least 4 billion bodies.24 If the evolutionary time scale is correct, buried bones should be able to last for much longer than 100,000 years, so many of the supposed 4 billion stone age skeletons should still be around (and certainly the buried artefacts). Yet only a few thousand have been found. This implies that the stone age was much shorter than evolutionists think, a few hundred years in many areas.

    11. Agriculture is too recent
    The usual evolutionary picture has men existing as hunters and gatherers for 100,000 years during the stone age before discovering agriculture less than 10,000 years ago.23 Yet the archaeological evidence shows that stone age men were as intelligent as we are. It is very improbable that none of the 4 billion people mentioned in item 10 should discover that plants grow from seeds. It is more likely that men were without agriculture less than a few hundred years after the flood, if at all.24

    12. History is too short
    According to evolutionists, stone age man existed for 100,000 years before beginning to make written records about 4000 to 5000 years ago. Prehistoric man built megalithic monuments, made beautiful cave paintings, and kept records of lunar phases.25 Why would he wait a thousand centuries before using the same skills to record history? The Biblical time scale is much more likely.24

    References
    Scheffler, H. and H. Elsasser, Physics of the Galaxy and Interstellar Matter, Springer-Verlag (1987) Berlin, pp. 352–353, 401–413.

    D. Zaritsky et al., Nature, July 22, 1993. Sky & Telescope, December 1993, p. 10.

    Steidl, P.F., ‘Planets, comets, and asteroids’, Design and Origins in Astronomy, pp. 73–106, G. Mulfinger, ed., Creation Research Society Books (1983) 5093 Williamsport Dr., Norcross, GA 30092.

    Whipple, F.L., "Background of modern comet theory," Nature 263 (2 Sept 1976) 15.

    Gordeyev, V.V. et al., ‘The average chemical composition of suspensions in the world’s rivers and the supply of sediments to the ocean by streams’, Dockl. Akad. Nauk. SSSR 238 (1980) 150.

    Hay, W.W., et al., ‘Mass/age distribution and composition of sediments on the ocean floor and the global rate of subduction’, Journal of Geophysical Research, 93, No B12 (10 December 1988) 14,933–14,940.

    Maybeck, M., ‘Concentrations des eaux fluviales en elements majeurs et apports en solution aux oceans’, Rev. de Geol. Dyn. Geogr. Phys. 21 (1979) 215.

    Sayles, F.L. and P.C. Mangelsdorf, ‘Cation-exchange characteristics of Amazon River suspended sediment and its reaction with seawater’, Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 41 (1979) 767.

    Austin, S.A. and D.R. Humphreys, ‘The sea’s missing salt: a dilemma for evolutionists’, Proc. 2nd Internat. Conf. on Creationism, Vol. II, Creation Science Fellowship (1991) in press. Address, ref. 12.

    Austin, S.A., ‘Evolution: the oceans say no!’ ICR Impact No. 8 (Oct. 1973) Institute for Creation Research, address in ref. 21.

    Merrill, R.T. and M. W. McElhinney, The Earth’s Magnetic Field , Academic Press (1983) London, pp. 101–106.

    Humphreys, D.R., ‘Reversals of the earth’s magnetic field during the Genesis flood’, Proc. 1st Internat. Conf. on Creationism (Aug. 1986, Pittsburgh) Creation Science Fellowship (1987) 362 Ashland Ave., Pittsburgh, PA 15228, Vol. II, pp. 113–126.

    Coe, R.S., M. Prévot, and P. Camps, ‘New evidence for extraordinarily rapid change of the geomagnetic field during a reversal’, Nature 374 (20 April 1995) pp. 687–92.

    Humphreys, D.R., ‘Physical mechanism for reversals of the earth’s magnetic field during the flood’, Proc. 2nd Intern. Conf. on Creationism, Vol. II, Creation Science Fellowship (1991) (ref. 12).

    Austin, S.A. and J.D. Morris, ‘Tight folds and clastic dikes as evidence for rapid deposition and deformation of two very thick stratigraphic sequences’, Proc. 1st Internat. Conf. on Creationism Vol. II, Creation Science Fellowship (1986) pp.3–15. Address in ref. 12.

    ibid., pp. 11–12.

    Gentry, R.V., ‘Radioactive halos’, Annual Review of Nuclear Science 23 (1973) 347–362.

    Gentry, R.V. et al., ‘Radiohalos in coalified wood: new evidence relating to time of uranium introduction and coalification’, Science 194 (15 Oct. 1976) 315–318.

    Gentry, R. V., ‘Radiohalos in a Radiochronological and cosmological perspective’, Science 184 (5 Apr. 1974) 62–66.

    Gentry, R. V., Creation’s Tiny Mystery, Earth Science Associates (1986) P.O. Box 12067, Knoxville, TN 37912-0067, pp. 23–37, 51–59, 61–62.

    Vardiman, L.The Age of the Earth’s Atmosphere: A Study of the Helium Flux through the Atmosphere, Institute for Creation Research (1990) P.O.Box 2667, El Cajon, CA 92021.

    Gentry, R. V. et al., ‘Differential helium retention in zircons: implications for nuclear waste management’, Geophys. Res. Lett. 9 (Oct. 1982) 1129–1130. See also ref. 20, pp. 169–170.

    Deevey, E.S., ‘The human population’, Scientific American 203 (Sept. 1960) 194–204.

    Marshak, A., ‘Exploring the mind of Ice Age man’, Nat. Geog. 147 (Jan. 1975) 64–89.

    Dritt, J. O., ‘Man’s earliest beginnings: discrepancies in the evolutionary timetable’, Proc. 2nd Internat. Conf. on Creat., Vol. I., Creation Science Fellowship (1990) pp. 73–78. Address, ref. 12. Creation Science Fellowship of New Mexico, Inc. P.O. Box 10550, Albuquerque, NM 87184 DRH September, 1999
    Formerly known as "CyberShy"
    Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori

    Comment


    • #92
      Unfortunately for Christianity, I'm a skeptic and would need a revelation to believe. I guess it's because I'm not gullible and I question authority.
      To us, it is the BEAST.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by King of Rasslin

        And Protestantism is so different from Muslims.
        I would say christian and muslim extremists are pretty much the same.
        Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

        Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

        Comment


        • #94
          Yup AH
          To us, it is the BEAST.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
            If I saw the sea part I'd probably think it was time to give up drinking.


            anyway...

            what is the point of those debates, as the God of those who believe is supposed to be a living GOD. Than they might just as well communicate with him, and it makes a difference in their life. And that is fine if that's what they think.

            If not... than what is the point in believing in something that is so fragile as a pink unicorn.

            Relying on science to prove God is useless, and you can only disapprove most od the theories about God but can't dissaprove God entirely either since you can move the idea of God to some realm behind the one already explored by scientific theories, so there can always be - MAYBE there is something.

            But I see no point in - yes that's why he IS, no you moron that's all crap and that's why he ISN'T.

            If you BELIEVE in God that you better have some real life experince with him other than that you are just a believer in some old stories, and if you dont than just don't bother.

            Nevermind these do make some interesting disscussions to the participants and I'll let you go on with it.
            Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
            GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

            Comment


            • #96
              I feel rejected. God never parted the sea for me, even when I lost my frisbee in the surf! If God starts parting seas for any of you I'm going to be really upset.

              (and if God were to unequivocally prove his existance to me, my reply would be "So?")

              Comment


              • #97
                Nicely put, onefoot...

                Here's my philosophy on God. If he exists, he has chosen to not be a part of this Earth. To me, that means that he doesn't want us worrying about him and he wants us to live our lives. IMO, if you aren't smart enough to recognize the bible and other religious texts as myth, you are worth my time and effort in convincing you that they are in fact myth. Let the sheep believe in their religion. Let them have their faith. Just make sure and keep them out of government
                To us, it is the BEAST.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by CyberShy

                  always that arrogant atheistic way of thinking........
                  Well its not just the atheists - about 95% of christians disagree with fundamentalist interpretations of the bible, probably just like 95% of muslims reject muslim extremist interpretations of the koran.

                  So, when did you put your brain in a jar Cyber and join the ranks of the brainwashed?
                  Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                  Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Lay off of him AH, you can't blame someone who's been brainwashed since birth.
                    To us, it is the BEAST.

                    Comment


                    • Nice arguments Cyber
                      But unfortunately there are plenty of other facts which can't be disproven by arguments.

                      radiometric dating, age of the earth, geology, radioactive decay, isotopes, isochrons, creationism, young-earth creationism, YEC, magnetic field, meteoritic dust, G. Brent Dalrymple

                      The oldest rocks which have been found so far (on the Earth) date to about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago (by several radiometric dating methods). Some of these rocks are sedimentary, and include minerals which are themselves as old as 4.1 to 4.2 billion years. Rocks of this age are relatively rare, however rocks that are at least 3.5 billion years in age have been found on North America, Greenland, Australia, Africa, and Asia.

                      While these values do not compute an age for the Earth, they do establish a lower limit (the Earth must be at least as old as any formation on it). This lower limit is at least concordant with the independently derived figure of 4.55 billion years for the Earth's actual age.
                      <Kassiopeia> you don't keep the virgins in your lair at a sodomising distance from your beasts or male prisoners. If you devirginised them yourself, though, that's another story. If they devirginised each other, then, I hope you had that webcam running.
                      Play Bumps! No, wait, play Slings!

                      Comment


                      • I'm not knowledgeable in geology, so I'll take the last three (though I suspect that the first nine points are equally ludicrous.)

                        Originally posted by CyberShy
                        10. Not enough stone age skeletons
                        Evolutionary anthropologists say that the stone age lasted for at least 100,000 years, during which time the world population of Neanderthal and Cro-magnon men was roughly constant, between 1 and 10 million. All that time they were burying their dead with artefacts.23 By this scenario, they would have buried at least 4 billion bodies.24 If the evolutionary time scale is correct, buried bones should be able to last for much longer than 100,000 years, so many of the supposed 4 billion stone age skeletons should still be around (and certainly the buried artefacts). Yet only a few thousand have been found. This implies that the stone age was much shorter than evolutionists think, a few hundred years in many areas.
                        It's simply impossible to find all the skeletons no matter how hard you look because:
                        1) most bones decay, and it's because minerals drip into them and solidify (iirc) that a minority of them are preserved. In fact, even when fossils are found, they are frequently just one toe bone or one fragment of the skull, full skeletons are rarely well preserved.
                        2) Unless you plan to start digging on every piece of desert, rainforest, taiga, tundra, continental shelf, and city, it's impossible to even find 0.1% of the bones that are preserved.

                        Agriculture is too recent
                        The usual evolutionary picture has men existing as hunters and gatherers for 100,000 years during the stone age before discovering agriculture less than 10,000 years ago.23 Yet the archaeological evidence shows that stone age men were as intelligent as we are. It is very improbable that none of the 4 billion people mentioned in item 10 should discover that plants grow from seeds. It is more likely that men were without agriculture less than a few hundred years after the flood, if at all.
                        The number of plants that are actually suitable for breeding into crops is extremely tiny. Most edible staples we have today are cereals - wheat, barley, millet and rice. Most of these were concentrated into Eurasia, and even so, agriculture arose in only a few sporadic areas, mostly in Eurasia. North China, India, Europe, and Africa did not invent agriculture by themselves. In other places in the world, agriculture was never discovered until European arrival, simply because there aren't any plants around to plant.
                        Thus there's nothing extraordinary with people staying hunter-gatherer for the last 100,000 years, much of which was during the Ice Age anyway.

                        12. History is too short
                        According to evolutionists, stone age man existed for 100,000 years before beginning to make written records about 4000 to 5000 years ago. Prehistoric man built megalithic monuments, made beautiful cave paintings, and kept records of lunar phases.25 Why would he wait a thousand centuries before using the same skills to record history? The Biblical time scale is much more likely.
                        There are plenty of examples of history being kept back. Medieval Europe held science back for 1000 years - China did it for even longer.

                        Besides, even if something is invented, there must be an economic base to propagate it. Steam engines were invented by the Ancient Greeks, but their industrial base and metallurgical skills were not developed enough for it to be widely used and start an Industrial Revolution. In the same way, hunting and gathering societies would have found little time, energy, or use for frivolous skills like writing. Writing was only invented as a necessity for keeping accounts of grain - something only an agricultural nation would need to do.
                        Poor silly humans. A temporarily stable pattern of matter and energy stumbles upon self-cognizance for a moment, and suddenly it thinks the whole universe was created for its benefit. -- mbelleroff

                        Comment


                        • Your arguments are also countered on that site btw.
                          <Kassiopeia> you don't keep the virgins in your lair at a sodomising distance from your beasts or male prisoners. If you devirginised them yourself, though, that's another story. If they devirginised each other, then, I hope you had that webcam running.
                          Play Bumps! No, wait, play Slings!

                          Comment


                          • Aeson... that would probably be my response too... "So?"

                            Regardless of who created my living consciousness (not my body... thanks mom, thanks dad) I have free will, a somewhat logical mind, and a skeptical, cynical nature. If there is a creator or god, it was part of his plan, so he knows I won't worship him just out of pure defiance. I'm not about to worship another being. What's the point? If I were a creator, I wouldn't want my creations wasting their time worshipping me. I'd want them to explore their world and live their lives... (hmmm)

                            If having faith helps you deal with the problems in your life and the world, then I have no objections. But when you use faith, religion, and the argument "this is what God wants", for your own agenda, then you are evil, wrong, hmmm, there's another word that describes it, but I can't think of it.
                            To us, it is the BEAST.

                            Comment


                            • ransk... you are mistaken about writing
                              To us, it is the BEAST.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sava
                                ransk... you are mistaken about writing
                                well it was used for other things too, but iirc, grain accounts came first.
                                Poor silly humans. A temporarily stable pattern of matter and energy stumbles upon self-cognizance for a moment, and suddenly it thinks the whole universe was created for its benefit. -- mbelleroff

                                Comment

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