US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies

[Jon Miller]

I will spy on Milla's house and other choice houses

JonMiller

[Lemmy]

Well, at least we aern't as bad as Holland, i hear they fine you if you say certain things they don't like.

where did you get that idea?
i could imagine fining someone for insulting a police officer, but then you're asking for it, and that isn't any different than in the US, so on what do you base this "at least we aren't as bad as Holland"?

[Victor Galis]

Whos paranoid? You?

-No. I realize I have more to fear from Bush than from all arab terrorist groups combined.

The idea is that normal people are always going to play a role in helping prevent crime and catch criminals. People say they don't want big brother watching them, but the truth is they don't want anyone watching them.

-Can you blame them? I bet if you pick any 4% of the US population, at least a thousand of those people find what I am doing highly suspicious at any given moment, even when I'm sleeping, just by pure chance.

The constitution has not been suspended, civil liberties still apply and if they try to go too far the Supreme Court will stop them. This is little more then a Neighborhood Watch type program.

-Maybe now, but at the rate things are progressing, I would not be terribly surprised if there are some "irregularities" in Generalissimo Bush's electoral victory in 2004.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
-Maybe now, but at the rate things are progressing, I would not be terribly surprised if there are some "irregularities" in Generalissimo Bush's electoral victory in 2004.

No need for that, he will get 70% now after the crisis.

[Promethus]

Highlighting the scope of the surveillance network, TIPS volunteers are being recruited primarily from among those whose work provides access to homes, businesses or transport systems. Letter carriers, utility employees, truck drivers and train conductors are among those named as targeted recruits.

This is NOT a neighborhood watch program

[Victor Galis]

I'm not so sure. Approval rating isn't the same thing as how many votes he'd get.

[drake]

-No. I realize I have more to fear from Bush than from all arab terrorist groups combined.

Do tell, what about Bush scares you?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Promethus
Highlighting the scope of the surveillance network, TIPS volunteers are being recruited primarily from among those whose work provides access to homes, businesses or transport systems. Letter carriers, utility employees, truck drivers and train conductors are among those named as targeted recruits.

This is NOT a neighborhood watch program

So? Is it even worse or?

You'll be watching if your letters are open, or you come home and find a postman inside . Oh I was just delivering letters, and I just checked inside to see if you had any outgoing mail.

[Jon Miller]

yes

there are always those who approve of wat he is doing, but think someone else would do better

besides the party line voters

Jon Miller

[Gatekeeper]

We get the police log at work every night and let me tell you this: People are always calling in about a "suspicious" person or vehicle on their own accord, it seems.

No government program is needed ... folks will call in a "suspicious" person/people or vehicles or activities ... even if 98 percent of the time it turns out that the "suspicious" activity was someone exercising, changing their vehicle's oil or simply standing around admiring the scenery.

People are like this the world over. The impression I get is that it's just another level of government trying to organize the torrent of information that comes in from these "informers" in an effort to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Gatekeeper

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Lemmy
where did you get that idea?
i could imagine fining someone for insulting a police officer, but then you're asking for it, and that isn't any different than in the US, so on what do you base this "at least we aren't as bad as Holland"?

I got it from dear St Markus, and the nice thread he posted about Dutch law.

Must be disheartening to realize you live in a police state like Holland that censors your free speach, eh?

[Victor Galis]

Do tell, what about Bush scares you?

-What doesn't? (He's a bloody reactionary)

[Q Classic]

actually, i'm more afraid of his foreign idiocy that nobody seems to remember these days.

what he did to korea and japan... hanging them out to dry like that. obscene.

that said:
bush isn't reactionary. he's just going for that retro thing; it's all the rage.

and it's true. he probably does want american citizens to be safe.

no, what worries me is not bush; he's a politician, he's playing into the wants and desires of a dumb populace.

the ones that worry me are the ones who confidently say "i'm willing to give up some of my rights to be safe."

[Lemmy]

I got it from dear St Markus, and the nice thread he posted about Dutch law.

Must be disheartening to realize you live in a police state like Holland that censors your free speach, eh?

must be one of those laws that are ignored by the police, like how prostitution and soft-drugs are theoretically illegal, but most policemen have enough commen sense to realize that enforcing those laws is a waste of time.
I've never heard of a law like this btw

[Sprayber]

Australia is becomming a police state(after hearing America was already one)

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/16/1026802691135.html

By Gabrielle Costa
July 17 2002


Police are to be given increased powers to search people for weapons and those who refuse face fines of up to $3000 under new laws detailed by Premier Steve Bracks yesterday.

The planned legislative changes have been attacked by legal bodies, with Liberty Victoria and the Law Institute questioning whether they would give police excessive search powers and prompt some officers to conduct racially based searches.

Under the proposed legislation, to be introduced in parliament in the spring session, officers who have a "reasonable suspicion" that a person is carrying a weapon, including knives, machetes, crossbows and swords, may conduct a search.

The courts interpret "reasonable suspicion" - the principle applied in drug searches - to be a fair view formed by a person acting without prejudice or passion, and taking into account all circumstances.

At the moment, the tougher legal test of "reasonable belief" applies for weapons searches, where the belief must be formed on the basis of all the circumstances.

Mr Bracks said the changes, which with Liberal support appear set to pass parliament before the end of the year, would improve community safety.

"It means police can do the very job they're required to do and make the streets safer with knives . . . taken off people," he said.

Mr Bracks acknowledged that police could not force a person to submit to a search, but said the $3000 penalty would deter refusals. He said other options were available to police in those cases, such as restraining a person if a situation became threatening.

Law Institute president David Faram said tougher search powers were unlikely to reduce the number of people carrying weapons in public.

With a lesser test, he said, police could decide to conduct searches based on "stereotypical groupings, whether it is the Asian community or any other ethnic community in our society".

He called for more extensive public debate on the issue and for stricter legal definitions of the types of searches and instances where they were legally permissible.

Liberty Victoria vice-president Greg Connellan called for tighter legal definitions and raised the prospect of Asian people being targeted because of preconceptions about Asian youths carrying weapons.

Mr Connellan also said the government should tackle the sale of weapons, which he said were readily available in Melbourne.

The proposed legislation has the strong backing of senior police, the Police Association and the State Opposition.

Chief Commissioner Christine Nixon said the additional search powers, together with 420 new metal detectors to be distributed to police stations, would help make Victoria's streets safer.

Ms Nixon and Police Association secretary Paul Mullett said the changes would win community support.

Opposition police spokesman Kim Wells said the Liberals supported the changes in principle and would consider the legislation in parliament.

Those damned facists Aussies.