Israel is a rascist state

[Chris 62]

Well, what is this?

The same old people saying Israel sucks again.

[Dinner]

Pretty much...

[KrazyHorse]

We could pretty much summarize most threads here similarly. Replace "Israel" with "Liberals", "Conservatives", "USA", "Europe", etc.

[Iskandar Reza]

Originally posted by Chris 62
Well, what is this?

The same old people saying Israel sucks again.

That's impossible. Only vacuum cleaners and hookers suck. And my girlfriend too.

[Iskandar Reza]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
We could pretty much summarize most threads here similarly. Replace "Israel" with "Liberals", "Conservatives", "USA", "Europe", etc.

YES! EXACTLY! Why are most of you guys so serious anyway? Anal retentive?

[CyberGnu]

Oerding, if the goverment decides to give away your house for no apparent reason other than that I seeminly need one, it is not legal.

Chegitz covered the remaining part.

[Saint Marcus]

Hmmm. It seems that the defenders of Israel use basically only one argument: The Arabs are worse, so the Israelis are justified in their actions.

Once more a case of two wrongs making a right. Seems quite common here, sadly.

[S. Kroeze]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I have studied history endepth I dual majored in History and Geology at the University of California at Santa Barbara. Although my specialty was the classical world, because that is what interested me the most, I never the less took several classes dealing with both the ancient and modern middle east. Now if you are satified with my credentials...

Dear Oerdin,

Since you studied History, could you please read and react to this thread?
My opponents in this previous discussion were completely unable to recommend one recent reliable study on Israel supporting their views. Instead they resorted to this contemptuous strategy, trying to discredit my sources, all professional historical research.
I hope you can list your sources. Please do! I will try to read the books you recommend.
Perhaps you should read some of the books I recommend.

Sincerely,

S.Kroeze

[BeBMan]

The current Israeli governement wants to prohibit non-Jews from buying land in Israel. So even though a good number of non-Jews live in the country, they won't be allowed to buy land. Apartheid anyone?

Hm, I don´t read the entire thread so don´t kill me if this is old news, but I heard today in German news that the law that prohibits non-Jews from buying land in Israel is practically dead.

I found nothing about it on cnn or bbc. Where are the Israeli posters when you need them? It would be nice to here what they think of this issue...

[Saint Marcus]

Hm, I don´t read the entire thread so don´t kill me if this is old news, but I heard today in German news that the law that prohibits non-Jews from buying land in Israel is practically dead.

You sure? Yesterday it was on CNN, and it showed Sharon defending the law ("they have rights in the land, but not rights on the land", or something along those lines).

[BeBMan]

Several German news sites report that also now, relatively big. The new law may be "unconstitutional", and most experts believe this means the political end for this law.

[KrazyHorse]

All that does is move the responsibility back one level; it falls on the government now, instead of on the state as a whole.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Oerding, if the goverment decides to give away your house for no apparent reason other than that I seeminly need one, it is not legal.

Chegitz covered the remaining part.

So Gnu lets hear your solution. What is it to kick all the Jews out?

[Dr Strangelove]

There are a number of countries around the world which restrict the rights of certain people to own real estate. When I lived in Grenada there was a law that forbade foreigners from purchasing land. Foreigners could however lease land for up to 99 years. Similar laws existed in various other developing countries at that time ( 1980 ). I seem to recall that during that era even several allied European nations regulated the purchase of land within their borders. They especially targeted Americans.

Is Israel still building the big wall around the West Bank? Could they be contemplating unilaterally cutting the West Bank and Gaza away? If these areas become truely independent I think we can assume that the Israeli settlers will be ejected. You can assume that the Palestinian state would never recognize the right of an Israeli to own property in Palestine.

If Israel and Palestine seperate then Paelstinians living in Israel will have to choose between one or the other. Those who choose palestine will effectively make themselves foreigners within Israel. Even Europe has historically recognized the right of a sovreign nation to restrict the ownership of property by foreigners within tis borders. Come to think of it, even the US has at times acted to ward off Japanese interests within the US.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by S. Kroeze

Dear Oerdin,

Since you studied History, could you please read and react to this thread?
My opponents in this previous discussion were completely unable to recommend one recent reliable study on Israel supporting their views. Instead they resorted to this contemptuous strategy, trying to discredit my sources, all professional historical research.
I hope you can list your sources. Please do! I will try to read the books you recommend.
Perhaps you should read some of the books I recommend.

Sincerely,

S.Kroeze

Kroeze: As I said before my expertise is in Ancient history but I will take a stab at the first article listed on your link. Without looking each case up I would say by and large many of the facts you state are true but selectively biased. They do, however, represent things which have occurred over the last half century. Please note that is is my opinion as a non-Jew and non- Israeli.

Arabs really are treated as second class citizens. In my observations this has more to do with bad feelings and uncertainties brought about by the on going conflict then by systemic racism or agast against individuals. While I was in Israel (in 1995) I saw several cases of Jews and Muslims working together and getting along on a personal level. It is mainly the mob thinking during times of war and crises which result in things like this.

Yes, the Israeli government nationalized all non-urban land in 1948. This did result in many arab farmers losing control of land they had lived on; to date only part of these group has been compensated but several offers have been made. You are entitled to your own opinions as to whither the financial compensation was adequate or not. I do believe that every government does have the right to nationalize assets if it is deemed in the national interest; I don't think that this should be done without compensation to the aggrieved party.

There is a long tradition of various governments nationalizing property. To this date the U.S> government still owns 90% of the land in the U.S. the figure is higher for Canada and 100% of all non-urban land in the former USSR is still state owned to this day. How much land does the French government hold that was nationalized from the Aristocracy during the revolution and how many companies does it still own that it nationalized from their private owners in the late 19th & early 20th centuries? Mexico, many other latin American countries, has gone through multiple fits of nationalization. China, Germany, Ireland, many african countries & Asian countries have all had nationalizations and that doesn't even count the rampent Arab nationalizations of land & businesses which occured from the 40's through the 80's. Governments have a right to do this but people should be compensated I agree.

You implied most arabs rejected the compensation because it was to small. That was part of it, but, Palestinians' unwritten law is to execute anyone who accepted the sale of land to a non-arab whither it was to the government or private citizen. Would you accept a solution, even a fair solution, if you knew someone would try to kill you for it? As I said before the situation is complicated and constinently changing. To try to blame one side is not only unfair but untrue.

The part speaking of it being illegal for Jews and non-Jews to marry is not true. Only the orthodox Jewish church refuses to recognize them but everyone is allowed to get civil marriages. If you will recall the Roman Catholic church refuses to recognize marriages between a Catholic and a non-Catholic and I believe the Orthodox and most Protestant groups have similar restrictions. If one is to go by Koranic law then a Muslim and non-Muslim may marry only if it is sworn in front of witnesses that the children will all be raised Muslim.

As for the part about Arabs only making up 14% (while having 20% of the population) of the membership in unions and workers' collectives, well, the under representation in the work force has to do with the historical lack of education among the arab population. Like the current under representation of black Americans the reasons are varied but mostly related to mistrust built up by a half century of warfare and threats of warfare.

The real way to address these issues starts with a peace agreement based upon the U.S.-Saudi initiative. The one that Arafat was offered 98% of and rejected two years ago. That's the reality. No one will trust each other enough to make reforms until the war is ended.