Why you can't satisfy ANY demands by terrorists before ridding of every one of them

[Ecthy]

stop being so destructive guys... after all you know the others have some brains, so (esp Chris62) stop being arseholes and f*cking think about what they say

Siro, you're right after all, but you shouldn't make an approach with a short term solution but present the whole pciture from the start. noone ever said there's only the long term solution.

we just have different approaches to the same concept

and you have to understand Israel can't have everything. it's thje conspiracy state after all

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
See, you've gotten it all wrong. This is why the ME won't see peace in my lifetime. Because Isreael doesn't understand. If Israel 'caves', it is the ONLY way to reduce fanaticism. You can't do the other way.

I don't remember Europe caving stopping the Naziis.

I remember WWII stopping them.

Hey, the British did, when they gave you up to the UN to make your state.

True.
But
a) the brittish used the same measures against jews that we use against pals today. exact same. I read brittish mandate reports.

b) jewish fighters never targetted civilians. even in king david hotel there was a warning given beforehand, and it was technically a government facility at the time.

Of course it was liberation! It was taken away from the Jews and given back to the Arabs.

That is just sick.

The lebanese people live under occupation of the Syrian government. Anyone who dares speak out is jailed. Christians are persecuted.

That's like calling the Soviet conquest of east Europe liberation. It was a liberation from one tyrant into the hands of another.

Sure, to some extent it was better - but it's still occupation.

That's because you still are using violence and oppresion against their brothers. Don't expect everyone to play nice while you crush them. And terrorism was happening BEFORE you left as well.

Terrorism was hapenning before we reached statehood as well, and before we occupied the territories as well.

It's there because they dont' want Jewish neighbours.

Um... it's pretty easy actually. Give them their state, as agreed to in Oslo. Try to work with them on making the people richer. Then in a generation, terrorism will be something that happens very rarely.

hmm...
Give the germans a state and other european countries.
try to work with them on giving them more countries to improve their economy.
In a generation, there'd be no genocide anymore. BECAUSE ALL JEWS WILL BE DEAD.

[Ecthy]

And the reason for that would be what, Siro?

[Sirotnikov]

Yeah, if Siro is going to try to paint Palestinians are Nazis, then I'm going to start (again) calling the Israeli state a Fascist neo-Nazi regime, that are keeping the Palestinians like the jews in ghettos in Hitler's Germany.

I'm not comapring Palestinians to nazis.

I'm comparing one form of extremism to another.

[Boris Godunov]

Siro: Your Nazi Germany comparison has been shown to be fallacious. Continuing to assert it will only make it fraudulent.

[Sirotnikov]

The chance of it being done are nil while you bully them and kick sand in their faces. The only way to end the violence is to begin yourselves.

Great solution.
I'm being attacked so I'll go sit in the corner hoping it would stop.

I would do that if I were fighting a reasonable opponenent. But fanaticism, is by definition irrational and not reasonable.

[Imran Siddiqui]

a) the brittish used the same measures against jews that we use against pals today. exact same. I read brittish mandate reports.

And your predessors couldn't deal with it, so they decided to kill people to make their point, and got their state.

And oh, I AM comparing Israel to the Nazis... and you, are one of them.

[Jaakko]

I swear to god some of you guys are just walking, breathing Versailles treaties...

[Imran Siddiqui]

YOU CREATED THE FANATICISM, YOU IDIOT NAZI!

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
But fanaticism, is by definition irrational and not reasonable.

And also the inability to see one's self as such.

*holds up mirror for Siro to see himself*

See?

You are just as irrational and unreasonable in your thinking as those you are against are.

[Sirotnikov]

Imran - it doesn't matter who created it. Once it exists it needs to be defeated.

I agree that Versailles treaty created Naziism.

But getting rid of it wasn't enough. Naziism had to be defeated as well.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Naziism could have been defeated MUCH earlier by being more concilatory. At a certain point in time it became impossible to defeat the Nazis by negotiation and diplomacy. You are coming VERY close to that that line with the Palestinians. And you seem to want to step over it.

[Sirotnikov]

Same thing with current terror.

two things have to be solved:

1) solving the conflict and creating a palestinian state
2) getting rid of terror.

NO IT WON'T GO AWAY ON IT'S OWN! IT NEVER DOES!

And also the inability to see one's self as such.

*holds up mirror for Siro to see himself*

See?

You are just as irrational and unreasonable in your thinking as those you are against are.

*sigh*

could you at least try to explain your claims instead of making bold assertions?

Why am I a nazi / unreasonable / what ever.

because I want to make terror obsolete?
because no matter what the problem is, i think that terror shouldn't be accepted as a solution?

[Imran Siddiqui]

You are just as unreasonable because you can only see one conquence. You are single-minded on one action where many exist. That is almost defining unreasonable.

[Sirotnikov]

Naziism could have been defeated MUCH earlier by being more concilatory. At a certain point in time it became impossible to defeat the Nazis by negotiation and diplomacy.

Agreed.

[qYou are coming VERY close to that that line with the Palestinians. And you seem to want to step over it.[/q]
That's the difference.

I think we have stepped over this line in October 2000.