Why you can't satisfy ANY demands by terrorists before ridding of every one of them

[CyberGnu]

Chris, are you so blinded by your hate now that you only read the Jerusalem Post?

Or maybe you just haven't read these threads thoroughly. Jewish media is not trustworthy. There is no question about that. Neither is arab media. So when debating with particularly Siro, I've been asking for confirmation of the Mossad fabrications by ONE SINGLE RESPECTED MEDIA SOURCE. NYT, WP, CNN, hell, I'd even go so far as FOX news.

Of course, it is so much easier to just sit there and say 'he won't agree with my preconceived notions, so he must not be listening to my unbased arguments'.

[CyberGnu]

Still waiting for a link

[Chris 62]

No, I just don't bother with you anymore, it's a waste of time.

I see it as you have your opinion and I have mine, and let it go at that.

I won't say anything further, I just let it go now.

[CyberGnu]

Ahh, few things hurts as preconcieved notions being dispelled. So much easier to close ones ears.

While I'm sorry you've decided to shut your mind, I would ask you to stay consistent. Snide comments about me isn't compatible with 'I just don't bother with you anymore'.

[Chris 62]

Nothing snide about it.

Have you ever changed your opinion based on anything anyone has posted about the ME?

Ever?

[CyberGnu]

Not in any major way, no. But it is a logical fallacy to conclude that since I've failed to be convinced by rhetoric and semantics, I would also fail to be convinced by real facts.

So it was either a snide comment or you are an idiot. I don't believe you are the latter, just filled with hate.

[Chris 62]

I refuse to get into a p1ssing match, dear boy.

But you are proving my point nicely.

[Lemmy]

what point?

[CyberGnu]

No pissing contests here. I asked you politely to either stay in or stay out. Your choice.

[Roland]

Re: Why you can't satisfy ANY demands by terrorists before ridding of every one of th

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

They see westerners saying : "ouch, that hurt. we better see what they want and make sure we do it. i mean, if they use terror, they must feel bad about it".

...

Those looney people will use terror. And the west will comply. However, that may not be enough. They will not stop demands. On the contrary - they will increase them.

...

Well now, western journalists, calling for fulfilling the terrorists demands, even before they are dealt with, are giving the next generation of Hitlers, Saddams, Humeinis, bin-Ladens, Stalins a hope for a bright future profit, and a fast way to achieve it.

You don't negotiate with terrorists about political targets unless they agree to a ceasefire. Fine. But the political situation wrt terror varies. The german RAF had about zero hold in the people, it was futile to debate any of their aims. The german government did not cave one inch to the RAF. The spanish government did not cave to ETA but still worked with moderate Basque nationalists to establish Basque autonomy. Honestly, I can't hear this "soft europeans" propaganda bull**** any longer, coming from a bunch of idiots who cook their own little soups on this "war" on "terror". It's a shame and utterly pathetic for free countries that this has become dogma in most US and Israeli media.

Parallel to palestinian terrorism, there is a political problem behind it affecting virtually all the palestinian people. You know that you won't get rid of every terrorist. Your suggestion simply means that there will be no political solution. And Sharon it seems does not want one, so it's a perfectly fitting strategy for him.

Getting to the politics while terrorists are active is far from a perfect situation, but it is usually the result of earlier injustice. Israel has to a large extent only itself to blame for the quagmire, especially with the idiotic settlement policy.

[Chris 62]

I'll say what I like where I like.

Talking to you bout the Middle east is a waste of time, nothing anyone says will change your postition in the slightest.

It is always the same, so therefore, pointless.

I'm just saving the new guy a little time.

[Lemmy]

I'll say what I like where I like.

Talking to you bout the Middle east is a waste of time, nothing anyone says will change your postition in the slightest.

It is always the same, so therefore, pointless.

I'm just saving the new guy a little time.

so you're staying out?
and you can't say everything you like in here, since this is a privately owned forum

[CyberGnu]

Poor chris. I think what you are doing is called 'projection'. Unable to deal with the possibility that muslims aren't all bad people, you are convinced that it must be my fault if I can't be convinced of the same thing...

Ironically, this puts you next to the muslim fanatics you so despise...

[Chris 62]

Not at all, dear boy.

I leave the racism to you, you so proudly display it.

[Guest]

Well what do you know?

Gentlemen, Gentlemen,...
no need to get upset.
I have been researching the population of what was called Palestine and found the following:

Historic Right!



With the exception of the 70 years' Babylonian desolation/captivity, the Jewish people had lived without interruption in the Land of Israel as a thriving nation until A.D. 70, ending a period of over seventeen hundred years. The Jewish population of Israel actually peaked at two and one-half million just before the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and expulsion of its people in 70 A.D. Small numbers of Jews have lived in Israel, particularity in Safed and other areas of the Galilee.

The opening of the doors to Jewish settlement in modern Israel can be pinpointed to 1878 when, by the diplomatic skill of Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli at the Berlin Congress of Nations. Britain was given a protectorate over Palestine. Disraeli had approached the Congress with the intention of achieving control over Palestine and had fully expected a mass immigration of Jews numbering one million.

World War 1 was a big turning point in the end time prophecy of regathering the Jewish people to the Land Of Israel. Turkey, with an expansive empire that included the Middle East, Palestine and North Africa, fought with Germany against the allies. The allies were victorious resulting in the break up of the Turkish Empire. Both Jews and Arabs requested independent states but, while the world powers were extremely generous to the Arabs and granted them 22 independent States that encompassed an area of 5,414,000 square miles, the Jews were granted less than one percent of this enormous area for a Jewish refuge. The allies agreed and designated an area which included both sides of the Jordan in the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and the San Remo Conference of World Powers of 1920.

For political reasons, Great Britain in 1921 reneged on the Balfour Declaration. They used 78 percent of the Land promised to the Jewish People in the Balfour Declaration to establish Transjordan and the Arab Emirate. In 1922, the League of Nations gave Great Britain a Mandate to prepare the remaining 22 percent of Palestine (including Judea, Samaria, Gaza, the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem) for a Jewish Homeland. Under French Pressure, the Golan Heights were given by the British to the French mandate in Syria.

Vast reserves of oil were then discovered in Arab countries. This lead the British to even greater appeasement in foreign policy towards the Arabs resulting in the "white paper" of 1939. This British policy paper lead to the banning of further Jewish immigration to Palestine. Britain's "white paper", together with the refusal of the United States and most other nations to accept Jewish refugees resulted in the trapping of millions of Jews in Nazi occupied Europe and the slaughter of one third of world Jewry. This is one of the most heinous crimes of history... perhaps the worst. Indeed, the Prime Minister of Britian, Lloyd George, described the issuance of the "white paper" as "an act of national perfidy which will forever dishonor the name of Britain."

Finally, the world, felt a moral obligation to grant the Jews an independent state. Unfortunately, the UN partition plan for Palestine in 1947 further reduced the size of the new Israeli State. The Jews accepted this compromise and agreed to a country that had indefensible borders. The Arabs refused partition even though they had more than 99% of the previous Turkish empire in the Middle East. Six Arab armies attacked Israel and occupied East Jerusalem including the Old City. Transjordan captured East Jerusalem and expelled all Jews and destroyed or desecrated all Jewish holy sites including the Jewish cemetary on the Mount of Olives. Transjordan occupied the old city and Judea and Samaria. "Jordan" (as it is now known) is the present-day occupier of this once Jewish territory as per the British mandate.

The war of 1948 created the "refugee problem" that has become one of the sticking points of the present Middle East "Peace" negotiations. Although many Arabs claim that 800 thousand to 1 million Palestinian Arabs (there were "Palestinian Jews" in that period, too, remember!) were made refugees from 1947-49. The last census taken in 1945 showed that only 756,000 permanent Arab residents were in Israel/Palestine. That number increased to only 809,100 at the time of the UN vote for partition which sparked the Arab attack on Jews in Israel. Another census after the war counted 160,000 Arabs still living in the country of Israel. That leaves no more than 650,000 Arabs as refugees from that war over 50 years ago! A UN report submitted in France after the war noted only 472,000 refugees.

The Arabs then made their refugees in to pawns to be used as a political weapon against Israel. Israel willingly absorbed the 600,000 Jewish refugees that fled Arab countries. The Arabs treated their own "refugees" as inferior people and did not allow them to become absorbed in the surrounding Arab countries.

In 1967, with the liberation of Judea and Samaria and East Jerusalem, Israel wanted to negotiate a peace settlement that would include returning all of Judea and Samaria and refugee resettlement. At that time there were no Jewish settlements in Samaria and East Jerusalem. Again, the Arabs refused to negotiate..."no negotiations and no recognition of Israel's right to exist."

The bottom line here is that we Jews have the Biblical mandate to settle our land and we have the legal, moral and historical right as declared and recongized by the League of Nations in 1922. The United Nations demonstrates total disregard for its own predessor, The League of Nations, by referring to any part of the Jewish homeland as occupied territory.

Mark Twain, in a visit to the Holy land in the 1800's remarked how desolate and malaria infested the land was. He had a hard time understanding why anyone would want to live here.

Arab nationalism came only within the last 100 years and only in direct response to the immigration of large numbers of Jews to Israel and to Jewish success in draining the swamps and restoring the Land. If Jews had not returned to Israel, Palestine would have remained desolate and underdeveloped. Until the Balfour declaration in 1917, Palestine had for centuries been a neglected corner of various Arab or Islamic tribes, Bedouin clans, fellahin (rural peasants) or empires such as the Ottoman Turks who divided the Land up as mentioned earlier. The claim of a united Palestinian people going back thousands of years is a myth that has been created to further their political aspirations and discredit the historical and religious legitimacy of the bond between the Jewish people and the Land of Israel.

Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian authority are trying to rewrite history. They present themselves as descendants of the Philistines and the Canaanites.

Yasser Arafat even claims Jesus as baptized as "the first Palestinian." So effective has Arafat's lies been that no less than Pope John Paul II during his recent visit to PA self control areas described the local shepherds of Jesus' time as the Palestinian' ancestors. He overlooked the fact that Jesus and his contemporaries were Jews.

Recently, a PA official commenting on this year's national soccer team described itself as the first Palestinian team since 1934. He didn't mention that the 1934 "Palestinian" squad consisted almost entirely of Zionist Jews.

The myth and lie that the Palestinian Authority has created and perpetuated is that all the periods of the land's past have been woven into one continuous narrative of Palestinian history.

The historian Benard Lewis refers to this as crossing the line from "recovered history" to "invented history."

What is most disturbing is that the international community and the media have swallowed this package of lies and distortion.

So it appears that whilst I was wrong to say there were no Arabs in Palestine at the time, the clear intent of the International Community at the time of setting up Israel, was to partition the Jews and Arabs, which it appears the Arabs refused to counternance.