Bigotry in Islam - And Here.

[chequita guevara]

The poor and uneducated also make up the bulk of Christian fundies, probably Hindu fundies too.

[Shi Huangdi]

Perhaps Islam will change in time Imran, we will wait in see. But I don't think you can judge what Islam will do based on how things went for Christianity. There have been different historical factors, as well as differences in the religion itself. Hinduism, for instance, took much longer to become modernized- by the time the British came the sati was still being practiced. What is disturbing is that now in the Islamic world the trend is towards more fundamentalism. It seems as though moslems are getting angrier at the often secular dictatorships that rule over them, and then much of the young nowadays are becoming more radical then ever.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Religious bigotry? In the United States?!

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

"Here are your winnings sir."

[Sikander]

Obviously we can't just paint a billion people with the same brush we use for Bin Laden and his ilk. Not only is it bigoted to do so, it is inaccurate. That said I am not nearly as upbeat as either Imran or the author of this piece. As for Imran's theory of religious history, even if it is correct it is of little relevance to us that in a few hundred years Islam will start to mellow out. Right now there are more than enough fanatics to be a real problem for a sizable chunk of the globe.

For whatever reason the areas where Islam holds sway tend to not only be the areas that are amongst the most backward on the planet, they also seem to be resistent to what we in the west call progress. Political and economic stagnation both seem to strengthen religious institutions, and in many areas of the Islamic world these religious institutions tend to be reactionary, which feeds back into political and economic stagnation. While this does vary regionally to some extent (ie some areas of the Islamic world have a long and successful political and / or economic tradition), the performance of Islam as a whole seems to suggest that the religion itself lends itself to this painful feeback loop more than most others. I think that Monk hits on some good points in this regard. For instance the Islamic world tends to be pretty wealthy in oil, which should provide a very welcome helping hand to their economies by providing them with a secure source of capital to develop internal markets. Yet the performance of the Arab oil states has been pitiful, with oil revenue used to prop up outmoded forms of government rather than developing new economic activities with which to diversify their economies. Indonesia's performance has not been much better even though it's regional variation and cultural history should have given it a leg up on the Arabs in this regard.

While on the whole the rest of the world is getting wealthier and more free, the opposite is true of the Islamic world. This troubling tendency is coupled with another one, which is the population growth of the Islamic world, which accounts for the vast majority of the growth of the religion, whatever fairly minor gains are made in Africa notwithstanding. I'm afraid that things are going to continue to get worse before they get better, not because I am an expert on Islam, but mainly because I have only observed a continuing decline in the status of Muslims throughout my life. As troubled as Africa is, I honestly have more hope for that region than I do for the Islamic world because I do see some progress in Africa over time. Eventually the secular governments which we in the west have been happy to have holding back the tide of the more radical elements in Islamic society are going to fall. This will be a dangerous time, but hopefully one of opportunity as well. I only hope that Islamicist governance will prove the limitations of that approach without proving to be as despotic and stubborn as the current secular and Islamicist regimes are.

[Roland]

"I only hope that Islamicist governance will prove the limitations of that approach"

Well Iran has already done that, has it not....

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Roland
"I only hope that Islamicist governance will prove the limitations of that approach"

Well Iran has already done that, has it not....

True, though many Muslim countries would rightly look up to the government of Iran as something to aspire to. That's a bit scary, but admit that I do admire the Iranians for adhering to the rule of law to the extent that they do. The problem in Iran is the constitution.

[moomin]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
I'm already sorry, but the thread title made me think of something funny:

I've never been in Islam before. Have you?

Try Kreutzberg, Ossie.

[Sava]

Silly Imran... just because a bunch of religious bigots in the US are making this claim doesn't mean they are wrong.

Bigotry is part of human nature, and part of all religions. It just so happens that bigotry in Islam is socially acceptable. The whole culture of Islam is intolerant of freedom and equality.

And don't go playing the Crusades card... the Crusades were to reclaim the Holy Land from the Muslim hordes that conquered the Mid-East and pushed as far into France via North Africa.

In a perfect world, we can all coexist. But the social cultures of the Mid-East are in direct clash of the Western idealogies... freedom, equality, tolerance, etc. Islam can exist in the West... the West cannot exist in the Islamic world. Personally, I choose freedom. I'm all for another modern day crusade to liberate the Mid-East and the Islamic world.