Bigotry in Islam - And Here.

[Az]

Paiktis : don't you think that the current regime is better for turkey than any Islamic regime?

Ecthelion: The following example may sound funny but it has a point. remember "The Marix"? there were lots of people hanging in slime , and were fooled into having a totally wrong picture of the world. Do you think that the heros of the movie were wrong in trying to free them ?

[Ecthy]

I had a similar thought briefly ago, about the Matrix and all that... actually that was just a misled thought of myself... we claim our societies enlightened, and that includes liberation of oppressed, somehow.

[Bereta_Eder]

dalgetti: yes for the people in turkey but they seem to always want the islamists. no for external relations 'cause military regime is as bad as islamist IMO (we have lived next to both)

[Stefu]

These articles always give me the feel that author wants everyone who criticizes Islam, whether he has a reason or not, to include a disclaimer reading "I know my culture has done bad things too, and I don't agree with them". Or something like that.

There is truth about that Jesus saying about motes in eyes and such, but when zealously applied, it leads to no-one saying anything about anything because they can't make it all nice and balanced.

[Az]

this is not a real post. You're the only one seeing this . If you mention it to other people , they'll make fun of you . Better get some medication and forget you ever saw this.

[Az]

so don't you think that a military regime , that has it's women free , and is at least accountable to the US , is better than an islamic "republic" ?

Ecthelion: sounds like cultural relativist bullcrap.

[Bereta_Eder]

dal, i already said that it's better for the people of turkey. but dont think that turkish women are free just beacue a military regime is in power. the culture remains islamic.
as for being accountable to the US, no. If they turn islamic they'll be such as abnoxious in external relations (i told you we lived with both islamic and military turkey next to us) and not having the US support is only a good thing if you get my drift.

[Ecthy]

what?

plus, women are free in a republic

[Ecthy]

please, what is cultural relativist bullcrap? if you ask me, you're too absolute. think relative

[Monk]

Oh, I missed one;

If Islam were really just the caricature that it is often reduced to, then how would it be so appealing as to become the world's fastest-growing religion?

This is one of the weakest points he tries to make. If the same flawed thought process was applied a relatively short while ago when concrete communism was one of the world's fastest-growing ideologies - maybe Kristof would have argued it couldn't have been that appealing after all.

[Az]

cultural relativism ---> " Court ruling of raping girl because her brother did something wrong is just their way of doing things, their tradition. We have no right to judge them".

[Imran Siddiqui]

This is one of the weakest points he tries to make.

Um, he actually backs it up in later passages, which Africans flocking to it. It's a good point. If it is SOOO repressive, why does it gain followers in such massive numbers?

[Ecthy]

nonsense

that's not what I meant, I meant it as in "do we see other cultures from ultimatre pov or from ours? do we have the right to interfere?"

it comes close to that, but there's a difference. ehin our acting is enlightenme´nt (18th century one not buddha one). that's the ultimate point of view when it comes to humanity affairs, especially in connection with humanism (14/15th century one). so we're always right

but still, if it's not a true republic, it's a dictatorship. and a dictatorship that is halfway west minded is better than a dictatorship that is reactionary in a cultural sense(ie islamic fundies)

[Sirotnikov]

I agree with Dal.

It's not that Islam is inherently worse that Christianity. It has it's differences, and it's hard to judge, considering it has brighter but also darker points.

The problem is that Islam is younger, and still is very active and has not matured to the point that Christianity has.

Christianity, it seems, has far less effect on people and life and politics than Islam does right now.

Furthermore, Christianity is currently hardly as missionary as it was, say, 600 years ago. And Islam is some 600 years younger than Christianity.

The problem is, that while now fundamentalist Islamists are still prevalent, they have access to more and better weapons of mass destruction, which Christianity didn't have 600 years ago. Though they did manage to slaughter enough people.

[Ecthy]

Bleh. The problem is people in the Islamic world are poor (former colonies, like Africa) and therefore easily affectable... therefore, they could also be turned against Israel and the US with Christianity etc. And then, it's not a majority there that is in a fighting mood. It's bad organisations. And instead of destroying Palestinian infrastructure for persecuting criminals, you should either let them go or if you think it's infested, clean it out and help them to get those buggers