Free speech and dead babies

[Bereta_Eder]

Abortion is legal.

That said no woman ever wants to be found herself in a position to have to make an abortion.

The psychological violence some of the anti-abortion people exert on them is revolting.

Luckily no such issues or controversies exist in Greece.

Abortion is legal. The decision rests with the woman.

IMO this is the mosty humane choice and a duty to a society it wants to call itself civilized.

[Bereta_Eder]

Plus it is a waste of time and energy from those anti-abortion people (some of them fanatics by the purest form of the word as I see)

Focus should be given on contraseptive means IMO.

[Gatekeeper]

Abortion could be reduced through education and access to birth control methods for women and, increasingly, men. Such a reasonable approach takes the wind out of too many sails, though, so the divergent views on abortion won't be going away anytime soon.

**shrug** Sometimes folks of all stripes have to give a little to gain a lot down the road. I believe the issue of abortion falls under this aegis.

Gatekeeper

[CyberGnu]

But Gateie, the same people who protest abortion are also the same sickos who lobby for 'abstention is the only birth control there is'...

[Gatekeeper]

CyberGnu:

Abstinence should be a *part* of any sex education that males and females receive. But they should also be made aware of the variety of other approaches to birth control that don't require abortion.

The sticky questions, of course, are just *when* these other aspects of birth control — such as condoms, the pill and whatnot — should be introduced into the educational curriculum. At what grade level do you begin talking about that sort of stuff? Sixth grade? Seventh? Ninth? Do you start girls out a year earlier than boys, because girls do begin to sexually mature before boys?

There's no question that all these aspects need to be taught, but it's a matter of timing that even I don't have down pat.

Gatekeeper

[CyberGnu]

Gatekeeper, sure, I don't mind teaching it. I confess that I don't know why one would teach it, as it seems quite self-evident...

As to when, it is a good question. Teaching the girls a year in advance might not be a bad thing, not least because teaching the girls in a separate class should be beneficial at an age when boys are most likely to giggle their way through a class with words such as penis and condom.

There are some studies on the subject, where they found that girls are sexually active as early as sixth grade.. So fifth grade should be a good age, with refresher courses every two years or so...

[Wernazuma III]

While I think that those pro-life guys are pretty much nuts, I wouldn't prohibit them from stating their opinion in a public place, as a university is ought to be, unless they disturb the academic life, by continuously singing loud for example. Free Speech is valuable and should not be srestricted only because some nuts guys are talking or showing fotos. That would be censorship

[Sava]

Their entire mentality is ***ked up... thousands die each year on the highways, yet Pro-Lifers are often conservatives that oppose safer, more fuel efficient vehicles. Thousands die by gunshot, yet Pro-Lifers are often conservatives that oppose any restrictions on guns. Millions die around the world of hunger and disease, yet Pro-Lifers are often conservatives that oppose the money we give to other countries in the form of humanitarian aid. The point is, they are hypocrits. They don't care about saving human lives, because if they did, they'd support causes that can do more good. Instead they want to make illegal something that few of them understand because of their belief in a God who undoubtedly wouldn't classify abortion as 'murder', that is, if he existed in the first place.

[CyberGnu]

Wernazuma, the point is that showing pictures without any connection to the issue is not exercising free speech, it is at best displaying art.

[CyberGnu]

Sava,

[Sava]

Thank you Gnu... don't listen to Jon Miller, his sig is wrong

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
So if I protest the fur industry I could use pictures of a concentration camp because I consider jews animals?

Your views on the state of jews or any of the other strawmen you brought along don't have anything to do with the fur industry. Perhaps you could explain the link to me in order for us to have a meaningful conversation on this analogy

Your examples of the limits on where art can or can not be displayed have nothing to do with the distinction you are making in this case between political protest and an artistic display.

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Tingkai


If it was filmed for training purposes then it would be a still from a video or a colour photo.

The lighting and the quality of the black and white film strongly suggests a staged photo.

It's probably not even an abortion, but rather a c-section. I may be mistaken, but I doubt there would be a need to cut the mother's stomach for an abortion.

All of this suggests the photo is being used as a lie.

The film was authentic (the second picture of the baby holding the surgeons finger). It was even published in USA Today. The operation involved a baby that had some type of spinal deformation. This was the first time that such an operation was performed in the womb. It is a real picture of a real operation.

Dan,

Yes, I think the concept of "free speech" zones is nuts but the idea began when nutty hippies started taking over universities in the 1960's demanding the right to self rule, free drugs, etc.. The anti-war demonstrations also got way out of hand.

Sava,

Did you ever stop to think that maybe you are steriotyping people? I am not active in the pro-life movement but I know several people who are and they simply do not fit your steriotype.

[KrazyHorse]

Aren't there also obscenity laws to consider? I feel that it is just as obscene (or possibly even more so) to show an aborted fetus as it is to show hard-core sex photos in a public place.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Aren't there also obscenity laws to consider?

Not really.