Free speech and dead babies

[Lincoln]

[Dr. Nick]

but no rights for those who wish to protest something, apparently

Is the University private or public? Is it on university grounds? Can people have sex or walk around naked on university grounds to protest sexual repression of the falsehood of clothedness? No. That's tresspassing rights too, isn't it?

[Dr. Nick]

posting a picture of a dead child in a public place is a proper form of protest

I disagree, it is disrespectful to the child and to the child's family.

Not agreeing with the concept that an unborn phoetus us a child, but if we assume it is, then it would be disrespectful.

[CyberGnu]

but you are defining lack of knowledge, wishful thinking and religious dogma

why should you be able to say that I can not say any of my speech because you disagree with it (think it is one of the three above) when I think that it is not one of the three above

it is not your right, in fact it is against my rights, for you to say what is reasonable speech for me based upon something as nebuluous as speech that is wrong based upon lack of knowledge, wishful thinking, and religious dogma

you have no right to define what those are, because I disagree with you about what those are

and limiting my speech based upon those who be tyrrany of the extreme

if people who thought as you did controlled the nation, I would have no other choice but to take part in a violent aprising against you (and I prefer to change things in a democratic manner)

'fetuses are people because babies can think from the moment of conception' = lack of knowledge

'fetuses are people because they look like tiny people' = wishful thinking (i.e. factually correct but illogically concluded)

'fetuses are people because I read so in an old book' = religious dogma.


Much like:
'blacks are inferior because they have smaller brains than whites' = lack of knowledge

'blacks are inferior because many of them like watermelon' = wishful thinking

'blacks are inferior because of that Ham did to Noah' = religious dogma.


But as I said before, as long as you defend hate speech, I understand your view point but I don't agree.

[Lincoln]

It must really take some effort to claim that people who are trying to save the unborn are practicing "hate speech". Orwell was right I guess.

[CyberGnu]

Lincoln, both are trying to make the lives of others worse beause of their own convictions.

It is not about the unborn. It is only a piece of tissue. It is about the mother who would be worced to carry out the pregnancy.

[Akka]

Originally posted by Lincoln
It must really take some effort to claim that people who are trying to save the unborn are practicing "hate speech". Orwell was right I guess.

If you consider the embryo a human, then it's people trying to prevent a murder.

If you consider the embryo NOT being a human, then it's people trying to dictate their will on others.


Fact is, embryo is not a human. So, anti-abortion manifestation is one group trying to enforce its dogmatic views on another group. Hence it's hate speech.

If you are able to PROVE that embryo is human, then it would no longer be hate speech.
But there is a 17-pages long thread about it, and guess what ? Por-life are biting the dust in it, because they can present not any argument but blind faith or whishful thinking.

Enforcing faith or wishful thinking on others IS dictatorship.

[Ramo]

I certainly agree that the anti-abortion group has every right to do this (BTW, it was at my campus last year). If it disturbs you so much to look at an aborted fetus to the extent that you want to ban it in a "free speech" zone, you have no business believing what you believe.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Lincoln
The baby I saw could easily fit in a shoe box but we better let Dr Strangelove decide. Is there a doctor in the house??

The infant is obviously quite premature. I can't tell if it's living or dead. If it's living then I don't know how you would go about arranging such a photograph, but I suppose if the parents, doctor and hospital legal staff were all in agreement it could happen.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Lincoln


Many operations are filmed for training purposes. This one especially because it was a unique operation.

If it was filmed for training purposes then it would be a still from a video or a colour photo.

The lighting and the quality of the black and white film strongly suggests a staged photo.

It's probably not even an abortion, but rather a c-section. I may be mistaken, but I doubt there would be a need to cut the mother's stomach for an abortion.

All of this suggests the photo is being used as a lie.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Akka le Vil


If you consider the embryo a human, then it's people trying to prevent a murder.

If you consider the embryo NOT being a human, then it's people trying to dictate their will on others.


Fact is, embryo is not a human. So, anti-abortion manifestation is one group trying to enforce its dogmatic views on another group. Hence it's hate speech.

If you are able to PROVE that embryo is human, then it would no longer be hate speech.
But there is a 17-pages long thread about it, and guess what ? Por-life are biting the dust in it, because they can present not any argument but blind faith or whishful thinking.

Enforcing faith or wishful thinking on others IS dictatorship.

hey man

this is about free speech

can I say that the embryo (or Fetus in the case of this argumetn because all the pictures are of fetuses) is a human

apparently you and CyberGnu say I cannot use pictures to make this statement (once more,t his is dealing with Fetuses which you claim you are prolife in regards to)

how is me making my argument hate speech

you are trying to take away my rights and the rights of everyone else



Jon Miller

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Our positions could thus be summed up as this:


BTW, I was planning to have a little exhibit here at Caltech called 'There are some fine-looking 14 year olds out there, let's legalize pedofilia NOW'. I have some pictures I found on an undisclosed website, that clearly shows how attractive 14 year olds can be.

EEEWWWWW! Cybergnu's a pedophile! I knew there was something fishy going on with our cloven-hoofed friend!

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Lincoln, 'imposing a view' would be to, for example, segregate schools or force a women to carry through with a pregnancy against her will.

I hate to burst your bubble 'gnu, but the right to free speech does actually dictate that groups like the KKK and the Nazis be permitted to march on public streets. Do you just not follow the news very often or were you intentionally ignoring reality?

[CyberGnu]

Ramo, to paraphrase the other abortion thread, people who can't stand the sight of blood shouldn't undergo operations? My brother is screwed...

I still claim what I didn in the beginning: since it is not a logical argument, it should be considered art. A university has no obligation to allow any kind of art on its campus.

[CyberGnu]

Dr, KKK is allowed to stage rallies, but AFAIK, they are not allowed to hold hate-speeches.


Jon, use as many pictures as you want. But to be protected free speech, the pictures should have some connection to the issue. Using an unrelated picture for shock value is not valid.