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Free speech and dead babies

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  • #106
    Dr, ackording to the law I think I am a pedophile, cause I thought that Britney Spear was hot when she was 17...

    (this is one of my pet peeves... I never understood how thinking 17 year olds can be hot equates with pedohilia...But that is a different story)
    Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

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    • #107
      Jon, question for you: what is your view on public pornography laws?
      Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

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      • #108
        Originally posted by Jon Miller


        hey man

        this is about free speech

        can I say that the embryo (or Fetus in the case of this argumetn because all the pictures are of fetuses) is a human

        apparently you and CyberGnu say I cannot use pictures to make this statement (once more,t his is dealing with Fetuses which you claim you are prolife in regards to)

        how is me making my argument hate speech

        you are trying to take away my rights and the rights of everyone else



        Jon Miller
        You misunderstood me.
        I say that, as anti-abortion people has no claim to support their views but wishful thinking and dogma, they are using hate speech.

        The fact that hate speech is tolerated or not depends on the law of your state.
        Science without conscience is the doom of the soul.

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        • #109
          CyberGNU, the free speech zone is probably a fairly large area (at least it was where they had the demonstration at UT). If you really want to, you can avoid looking at it if you have a strong aversion to bloody pictures.

          Let's make the demonstration into something less contraversial, say, pictures from Nazi massacres. How would you deal with people who want to ban these demonstrations because they "don't like the sight of blood?"

          As far as I'm concerned, this kind of bull**** isn't about what people don't want to see, but what people don't want others to see.
          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
          -Bokonon

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          • #110
            Ramo, I have nothing against homosexuality, but I would prefer not to have frescos of gay men giving each other blowjobs on the way to work. The proper venue for that is an art exhibit, or possibly california. Wait, I live in california. Damn. Oh well.

            You get my drift, right?
            Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

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            • #111
              Originally posted by CyberGnu
              It is an analogous protest, where I protest the illegal nature of an act with an argument that has nothing to do with the issue.
              I don't see how you can claim that the protest (displaying pictures of aborted fetuses) has nothing to do with the issue at hand when you take into acount your statements referencing fur industry protests in this thread.

              PS I'd still like someone to answer my earlier question. The new university policy seems like a transparent end run around the court order.
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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              • #112
                Avoiding an event is not the same as having the government stifiling it...
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

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                • #113
                  Dino, the fur protestors are protesting the unethical treatment of animals. This is illustrated with pictures showing said treatment. (There are of course protestors who protest the use of animals for anything, including food. I'm not referring to them).

                  But the anti-abortionists are protesting the practice of abortion. What does the pictures illustrate? That removing really revolting-looking tissue is immoral? That because the tissue looks human, abortion is wrong? Neither of these statements are logical, and the use of pictures can not be contrued as anything but revolting pictures used for shock value, just as pictures of a concentration camp would be... Which takes it from political speech to art.
                  Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

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                  • #114
                    Ramo, saying 'you can't do that on school property' is not the same as saying 'you can't do that period'. They are more than welcome to rent a gallery and display their posters for people who derive pleasure from looking at tissue samples...

                    If we should force a school to allow the display of disturbing pictures for no other purpose than shock value, can I force the school to allow me to take a dump on the side walk? How about pictures of bestiality? Necrophilia? And what about placement? Could I put a wide screen TV showing vivisection videos in the school cafeteria? Or some coprofage sex tapes, would go great with that chocolate pudding.
                    Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

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                    • #115
                      Originally posted by CyberGnu
                      But the anti-abortionists are protesting the practice of abortion. What does the pictures illustrate?
                      The murder of what they consider to be human beings. I don't particularly care to debate the validity, or lack thereof, of thier belief as this isn't the thread to do that in.

                      I also don't get the distinction you are drawing between art and political speech in this instance because (IIRC) it does not appear anywhere in either the 1st amendment or the relevent case law.
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                      • #116
                        The important part is that these areas are "free speech zones." I don't see how the universities are justified in censoring certain demonstrations in these zones just because the posters they put up aren't pretty...
                        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                        -Bokonon

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                        • #117
                          So if I protest the fur industry I could use pictures of a concentration camp because I consider jews animals? (Siro, don't worry. Rhethorical point only).

                          Or pictures of aborted fetuses, because humans are animals too?

                          Or how about those coprofage tapes, since animals to defecate...

                          Tenous or even spurious links as those are not links in the real sense...


                          I also don't get the distinction you are drawing between art and political speech in this instance because (IIRC) it does not appear anywhere in either the 1st amendment or the relevent case law.
                          The law does allow the prohibition of a art or commercial display on public property. The state of Maine prohibits billboards along the state highways, as it lessens the beaty of the view. IIRC, California prohibited the reknown artist Jorge to pull one of his mastodont stunts (like placing pink umbrellas along a ten miles stretch of highway). Grafitti is prohibited pretty much everywhere.
                          Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

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                          • #118
                            Ramo: ?

                            The university has said the group can put up their pictures in one of the designated 'free speech zones'. I think the group should stop whining and be happy the university is humoring them at all...
                            Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

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                            • #119
                              The university has said the group can put up their pictures in one of the designated 'free speech zones'. I think the group should stop whining and be happy the university is humoring them at all...

                              That's what I get for not reading the article, I suppose.

                              In that case, I have no problems whatsover with the University's decision. It's totally impractical if students are able to put all the crap they want anywhere in campus.

                              I assumed that the University prevented the group from placing the demonstration in the free speech zones...
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

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                              • #120
                                Does anybody else find the term "free speech zones" a ludicrous phrasing?
                                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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