A note of thanks to the USA from one of the more grateful Europeans.

[Chris 62]

The Communist system will never work in the US, for example, because the rights of man are always secondary to some "goal" the party sets.

The whole 'ends justify the means' mindset is a giant turn-off to me.

I was just looking at the "define communism" thread, and it's all the same.
People decry the current system but offer no viable substitue, simply the saying 'well, yes, all the past communist attempts were bad, but WE will do it right!'

Somehow I don't think so.

[Lemmy]

did you read through the entire thread?

[Saint Marcus]

I know you like the crazy headline Marky, and the bombastic posts, but most of the US posters only get annoyed with this.

Indeed, which is exactly the reason for posting it. Don't you think non Americans don't get annoyed at Shi's or Wiglaf's posts? (ok, people just laugh at Wiglaf, but that's beside the point).

And you? Well, I like you. You're not a bad guy, but please take it easy on the personal insults. I mean, most here insult others, that's a core element of internet forums, but some are more easily provoked/triggered into doing it. Giancarlo was an extreme example. Someone posted a troll or trollish flame, he responded by extreme cussing and making personal insults, the others responded in kind, and so on. You're no Giancarlo, thank God, but too are one of the more easily provoked posters here on poly. That, combined with your strong opinions on certain topics, make you a prime target for trolls. And yeah, it may not be a very nice thing of "us" (us used in the broadest sense, in this case all trolls, or all anti-american trolls), but it's to be expected on internet forums. Expecting trolls not to troll is like expecting Sharon to give peace a chance, or expecting Giancarlo to use logic to support his positions (whoops, did it again). Well, the point I'm trying to make is that people suck. People are evil. People online are even worse. If you have a weakness, and you do (which you also point out), people will take advantage of that. When you annoy them (and believe me, frequently you do with your style of posting ) they'll use whatever they can find against you. I can't think of a solution for this sadly. Sure you can ban all trolls, but new ones will comes back. That's the nature of poly's OT. The two options that remain are: Not giving in to trolls, or making your posts seem somewhat more "moderated". If you come in with guns firing, you can expect someone to fire back, even (and especcially) when you're not looking). That's how the world works, especcially here on poly's OT. Sorry mate.

[Rogan Josh]

I would like to apologise to Chris 62 if he was in any way offended by my posts in this thread.

I did not mean to offend (well, to be honest, sometimes I do, because I find some of Chris's posts so outrageous, but that is no excuse), I only mean to challenge views I disagree with.

And believe me, I do fundamentally disagree with the extreme US patriotism which I often see on these pages, and the mindset which thinks that every action of the US must be correct because the US represents democracy and freedom. I also find it somewhat offensive that many Americans believe that they invented democracy, freedom and anything which isn't evil, and I am disturbed by the obvious implications towards my family, people and culture.

I think Europe today is a great place. Sure it has its bad points, but it has many wonderful things too and it doesn't deserve to be broadsided by the Americans at every opportunity.

Likewise, there are many good things about the US. The Americans on these boards have to realize that Europeans do not mean to critisise everything American when they criticise US foriegn policy. Just because we don't like President Buch, doesn't mean we don't like the US or Americans in general.

These are my opinions, and as Ming points out (bless him!), we all have a right to our opinions, and you are not going to change them by insulting me. A healthy dialogue and reasoned arguments are much more effective.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Chris 62

As for you, "Komrad", do a little study work into the Soviets, and see if you still think Communism is such a hot idea and if that avatar is so cute.

I don´t think Soviet-style communism is either "a hot idea" or (in fact) communism at all. The Russian Revolution ****ed up at a relatively early stage (Lenins refusal to hold free elections in 1918). My choice of avatar is to the original intent of the Russian Revolution. It´s a symbol of unity between workers and farmers (the hammer and the sickle) The star is both the representation of the life and immense energy of the sun. It´s red due to symbolism of the blood that has been spilt by workers the world over the fight for their emancipation, and is directly inherited from the red banner flown at the Paris Commune in 1870.

The USA has done it share of wrong doing, no American denies it, but we do a lot of good also, and we are proud of our nation, and that isn't going to change.

I can understand your proudness of your nation (I´m somewhat proud of Sweden after all), you fight for what you believe is right. Others disagree with you if that´s right or not. These disagreements are sometimes considered as 'trolling'. What I and others like Rogan Josh and Saint Marcus et al say is what we belive is right. Even if we say it an a slightly trollish way

Other persons such as Noam Chomsky, William Blum (ex-CIA-agent turned regime critic) and John Pilger basically say the same things we say.

It´s not good that our disagreements degenerate into name calling and personal insults. I´m as much to blame for this as anyone else and I must admit that I haven´t actually read your posts in-depth. When I read the above quoted post it put you in a different light. You are not the flag-waving über-patriot I thought you were...

While I know we will never agree on many things, I hope we can at least agree to disagree. I´m not such a bad guy after all (if you get to know me...)

[Chris 62]

Actually, reading what you guys say is interesting, and I like it when we TALK, not fight.

I'm the first to admit I go to far at times (as Ming says, too damn emotional!), and I often regret it, as I know a lot of you aern't really bad guys.

I'm sure if we read what we really say, we would all get on better, to answer Lemmy, i did read that entire thread, and it did provide some insight into the communist posters at poly.

I suppose a lot of you never really delt with Americans, anymore then i and the other Americans have delt with Europeans, so a certain amount of confusion and mistrust can result, especially these days, when the USA isn't represented by the brightest bulb in the bunch.
At times we can seem like flag waving maniacs, marching off on dopey crusades to save the world, but really, most of us simply mean well, even though our "help" is often a disaster to the people we go to "save".

We do try to learn from mistakes, however, so I suppose that's something.
These are difficult times, but when have times really been good?
The best we can do is try to co-operate, I know that the average American considers Europe as an ally and a fellow area devoted to freedom and the rule of law, even though you lot sound funny to us!

Let's see how far we can go with it.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Hear, hear.

On a seperate point, I've just read a description of Dubya that calls him "an eerie, apocalyptic dormouse". I laughed so hard I nearly sprung a rib.

[Saint Marcus]

I suppose a lot of you never really delt with Americans

I deal with them quite frequently. Lovely people. Rather uncomplicated in general, and that's what makes them so charming. Most things tend to be rather simple when dealing and talking with Americans. Not because Americans are less "smart", but because their culture and history is different. I personally love it. They say what they think and say it how it is. In general, they are hard headed, but honest. Of course, all this makes it rather easy to get under their skin too.

All this is of course an oversimplification, but those traits are found in most Americans in some degree.

Quite lovely

[Immortal Wombat]

bloody hell, has this thread stayed reasonable and polite??

Originally posted by Lincoln
Thanks Shi. I must say though, I can understand some of the resentment. It is not a virtue to gloat. I think it was Chruchill who reminded us to be magnanimus in victory. No one likes a bragger. It should be humbling to be an American. We should never take the favor that was placed upon this nation for granted. My father fought in Normandy and in the Pacific and my uncle died trying to save Europe. May he rest in peace along with the thousands of likeminded people who thought that friends in need were indeed, friends.

Originally posted by Chris62
Actually, reading what you guys say is interesting, and I like it when we TALK, not fight.

I'm the first to admit I go to far at times (as Ming says, too damn emotional!), and I often regret it, as I know a lot of you aern't really bad guys.

I'm sure if we read what we really say, we would all get on better, to answer Lemmy, i did read that entire thread, and it did provide some insight into the communist posters at poly.

I suppose a lot of you never really delt with Americans, anymore then i and the other Americans have delt with Europeans, so a certain amount of confusion and mistrust can result, especially these days, when the USA isn't represented by the brightest bulb in the bunch.
At times we can seem like flag waving maniacs, marching off on dopey crusades to save the world, but really, most of us simply mean well, even though our "help" is often a disaster to the people we go to "save".

We do try to learn from mistakes, however, so I suppose that's something.
These are difficult times, but when have times really been good?
The best we can do is try to co-operate, I know that the average American considers Europe as an ally and a fellow area devoted to freedom and the rule of law, even though you lot sound funny to us!

Let's see how far we can go with it.

Have I dropped into an alternative 'Poly?
I like it


Thanks America

[Lemmy]

"bloody hell, has this thread stayed reasonable and polite?? "

heh, you must've missed the part where Ming appeared

[Arrian]

Yeah, but after the Ming appearance, we entered "Bizzaro 'poly" where Chris, Rogan Josh and St. Marcus were being reasonable and nice to one another. Incredible.

But somehow that makes the trolling posts more annoying.

-Arrian

[Saint Marcus]

You just entered...the Twilight Zone


USA!!

[Ming]

GO EU!!

[Saint Marcus]

et tu, Ming?

[JohnIII]

In the spirit of things: GO UK!!