Is Communism effectively dead?

[Asher]

Originally posted by paiktis22
You have read nothing.

Go back and read.

to make it extra simple

Chile = people voted communism, imperialistic powers overturned it.

paiktis, no offense, but there are the odd cases of everything out there, and this proves nothing.

Communism in China is extremely oppresive right now, moreso than Chile ever was, so what's your point?

Real democary+capitalism do not exist if the will of the people for communism turns it into fascism.

simple non?

Yeah, if the democracy turns into fascism democracy does not exist. Very simple, but very moot and not related to anything?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Asher

Do you have a shred of evidence for this, or is this a story that communists tell eachother around the bonfire of money?

It's a very well documented fact. It was the CIA's first major operation as the CIA.

[Bereta_Eder]

asher, no offence taken and i have to apologize if i seemed angry.

but these stories which i told you are not BS. they have happened exactly as i told you. they are not made out of thin air.

now, i think that it is not moot. the point that: if democracy +capitalism will turn into fascism when people want a socialist government, then it is not democracy.

[klesh]

I have many documented acts by the US gov to overthrow democratically elected socialist governments, only to install a military dictatorship and the like. All under the guise of spreading 'democracy'.

[Asher]

Originally posted by paiktis22
now, i think that it is not moot. the point that: if democracy +capitalism will turn into fascism when people want a socialist government, then it is not democracy.

Yeah, so what does that have to do with a true democracy + capitalism?

To the people using the US' CIA as something against democracy, you should know that it has to do with nationalism more than anything else. Not all democracies behave like the US to the point of overthrowing the "evil commies" all over the place.

It's a weird example.

[Bereta_Eder]

it has nopthing to do with nationalism

if a democracy + capitalism PROHIBITS the will of the people to vote for something then it is not a democracy.

how more simple can it get?

[faded glory]

Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
I have many documented acts by the US gov to overthrow democratically elected socialist governments, only to install a military dictatorship and the like. All under the guise of spreading 'democracy'.

Which is how different from Communism?


100 million people not enough? Thats how much people were murdered in the last 100 years by people who blindlessly followed that Marxist/Maoist crap.

Ukraine famine, 13 million. Stalins Purges,5 million. Mao's great plan, 23 million. North Korea, 6 million. Cambodia, 3 million. Vietnam, 2 million. Death from Wars and civil wars in Africa instigated by the Soviet Union: Uncountable (10 million).


Communism is dead..stained with the blood of millions. If you want to start a class war movement call it somthing else, but you will never get any support if your a communist. Unless if you live Milwaukee... (on the verge of electing ANOTHER open Communist)

[klesh]

sure its a wierd example, but it best exemplifies global dictatorial captialism at it's breaking point.

And here is a short list of the countries the US has been involved in overthrowing democratically elected governments in:

Indonesia- 1965
Philipines- 1972/1986
Haiti- 1916, 1957
Dominican Republic- 1916, 1962-4
Cuba- 1898, 1961
Chile 1973
Guatemala- 1954
Nicauragua- 1854, 1902, 1912, then 1979 involvement against San Danistas (sp?)
El Salvador- not sure of the year.

[Asher]

Originally posted by paiktis22
if a democracy + capitalism PROHIBITS the will of the people to vote for something then it is not a democracy.

how more simple can it get?

It's very simple, I agree with that completely, but I don't see what the point is of what you're saying.

It seems totally unrelated to anything talked about here. I've never said the US was a real democracy, they're not.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

It always gives me cause to chuckle when I see the words "communism" and "effectively" being used together.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
sure its a wierd example, but it best exemplifies global dictatorial captialism at it's breaking point.

And here is a short list of the countries the US has been involved in overthrowing democratically elected governments in:

Indonesia- 1965
Philipines- 1972/1986
Haiti- 1916, 1957
Dominican Republic- 1916, 1962-4
Cuba- 1898, 1961
Chile 1973
Guatemala- 1954
Nicauragua- 1854, 1902, 1912, then 1979 involvement against San Danistas (sp?)
El Salvador- not sure of the year.

Alright, and at this point you can discuss the political voice people have in China and other communist countries.

[klesh]

All of those examples are not communism, Asher. State socialism maybe, but certainly not communism in its real sense.

[Bereta_Eder]

it will always be called communism

and Vietnamese were killed by the americans.

plus how many tens of million of people died from AMERICAN instigated wars?

huh faded glory?


most importantly how many countries got screwed by the US of A?

one day there must be payment and punishment.
(IMHO)

[Asher]

All of those examples are not communism, Asher. State socialism maybe, but certainly not communism in its real sense.

I never said they were communist, I just find it incredibly amusing that a communist is complaining about political voice...

[Kropotkin]

It's obvious that many people have problems to separate political ideology and historical and political events.