Is Communism effectively dead?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Asher

Yes.

I have many examples in my mind. But I don't remember the exact dates you will have to wait for che.

Still one that pops in my mind:

Italy after WW2.

The voting was overwhelming in favor of a socialist government. The current (capitalist) government distorted the votes and then crashed by military means the uprisings that his caused.

Greece after civil war:

The (capitalist) government outlawed the communist party for fear it would win the elections and again used force to qwell the uprisings.
Greece effectively got a socialist government in th '80s (which carried on with free market policies)


Turkey

Imprisoned and in many cases tortured to death all socialist leaders during the Cold War. Needless to say it outlawed everything too.


I'm sure there are many more examples in Latin America as well.

Predominantly Chile.

The people voted for the socialist Aliente who started curing the country from many evils.
The US brought forth a brutal dictatorship and overturned him.

Che will propably know more about your question than me.

[monkspider]

Where on earth did that come from Albert?

[monkspider]

In Italy after WW II America airlifted a bunch of Gangsters (!) into Italy to stuff ballot boxes, pressure people into not voting, etc when the Communist party was on the verge of victory.

[Bereta_Eder]

many other illegal methods of "pressuring" voters (like in Italy) also have happened in France.

Also Spain and Portogale have had decades of dictatorhsips that crushed all "dissidents".

[Asher]

Those are problems with fascism more than democracy + capitalism.

[Ned]

If a "democracy" becomes so corrupt that there become a de facto subjugation of the so-called working class, perhaps. I think all communist takeovers were a reaction to true oppression.

The way we combat communism is not simply to promote free-market concepts, but to promote a democracy that is truly concerned with the welfare of all its people.

[Asher]

Originally posted by monkspider
In Italy after WW II America airlifted a bunch of Gangsters (!) into Italy to stuff ballot boxes, pressure people into not voting, etc when the Communist party was on the verge of victory.

Do you have a shred of evidence for this, or is this a story that communists tell eachother around the bonfire of money?

[Bereta_Eder]

you asked if people ever voted for communism.

these are problems with capitalism turning fascist against the will of the people who vote communism.

[Asher]

Originally posted by paiktis22
you asked if people ever voted for communism.

these are problems with capitalism turning fascist against the will of the people who vote communism.

I didn't ask any such thing, I asked if there's any examples of communism that have worked.

[chequita guevara]

No, communism is not dead. It certain isn't in good shape, but the economic conditions that made communism possible and necessary haven't disappeared. As lon as the world is divided into classes, there will be class war. As long as there is class war, there is the possibility of class revolution.

Revolution isn't something that happens because Communists sit around all day convincing people that's what they really need. They happen because at a crucial moment, the state finds itself unable to deal with a crisis. At that moment, if the people move, the government may fall. If a communist organization had previously led people in their daily struggles for a better life, then they may be able to lead the people forward to victory.

No government is prepared to deal with every possible crisis. Powerful dicatorships and governments can have their legitimacy shaken by natural disaster, war, economic crisis. Even the US cannot deal with everything. Had al-Qaeda mounted a sustained terrorist attack, they could have caused the government to fall, mostly like to be replaced with a military dictatorship.

[Bereta_Eder]

no, you asked if people ever voted for communism.

[klesh]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
a happy guy cause you live in your suburban mansion, liberal burgher?

Ha!, you've never been to Lowell Massachusets have you? Did you see that HBO special "High on Crack Street"? Yeah, thats Lowell.

[Asher]

Originally posted by paiktis22


no, you asked if people ever voted for communism.

I dare you to find a quote from me asking that.

I asked you to provide examples from when "Imperialistic Powers" overtuned the "Will of the communist people" which you have yet to do, just a bunch of general BS without a shred of evidence.

By the same token, there's many instances where communism is far more brutal and doesn't permit democracy. MANY more, in fact.

So your point is entirely moot. Real democracy + capitalism should not be confused with fascism.

[Bereta_Eder]

You have read nothing.

Go back and read.

to make it extra simple

Chile = people voted communism, imperialistic powers overturned it.


Real democary+capitalism do not exist if the will of the people for communism turns it into fascism.

simple non?

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
No, communism is not dead. It certain isn't in good shape, but the economic conditions that made communism possible and necessary haven't disappeared. As lon as the world is divided into classes, there will be class war. As long as there is class war, there is the possibility of class revolution.

Revolution isn't something that happens because Communists sit around all day convincing people that's what they really need. They happen because at a crucial moment, the state finds itself unable to deal with a crisis. At that moment, if the people move, the government may fall. If a communist organization had previously led people in their daily struggles for a better life, then they may be able to lead the people forward to victory.

No government is prepared to deal with every possible crisis. Powerful dicatorships and governments can have their legitimacy shaken by natural disaster, war, economic crisis. Even the US cannot deal with everything. Had al-Qaeda mounted a sustained terrorist attack, they could have caused the government to fall, mostly like to be replaced with a military dictatorship.

CQ, Check out my post just before yours. Do you agree with it?