Supreme Court Rules Vouchers to Be Constitutional!

[GePap]

In the US

Public, or government run education seems to do very well in Europe and in Asia, so what is America doing to screw this up? I do think that public education can work, though of course, i went to a top notch public magnet school which had itself a 150 Million dollar building built for it to replace its old, 1914 decrepit building, which was then used to house 4 new, small public high schools.....but the systm did wok fo me.

[Sava]

The right wingers want to privatize everything so they can make money off of it; in addition to wanting religion jammed down kids' throats. Public Education does work, and instead of giving up on it, how about you try improving it.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Jon, you're missing the major point: even with the tax credits amounting to 2500$, most low-income families won't be able to afford sending their kids o yuppie schools that cost 10 000$ p.a. This means that the main beneficiaries are going to be those who could already afford to send their kids to private school and who have just been granted a 2500$ rebate.

Once these higher-income parents have been given additional incentive to send their kids to private school, they have no reason to want to pay taxes to support public schools, and school budgets will shrink, hurting the lower-income students who still can't afford to go to school with the yuppies...

me and 3 of my siblings went to a horrid public school

my younger brother went for one year and then my mom put him in a private school

it is really hard on her because she doesn't have the money

she gets in debt every year to send him there, but putting him in a school where he will have a chance to gain an education is important (I don't know if you have heard of my high school , but it was very bad)

just lowering the yearly debt by 2500 would be great for her (She just put herself through college and so has debt from that as well)

there should be decent public schools available, but if there is not, then there shold be ways that students who want it can get a decent education

if she had a bit less money or worst credit she would not be able to send him there, I think about all the people who are slightly poorer than she is and realise that there are a lot of people vouchers can help (especially if they are increased)

Jon Miller

[KrazyHorse]

Now if they were to make it so that basically all students to were able to take advantage of the private school system, I'd be all in favour of it.

I attended a semi-private (partially paid for by the government) high school. It cost ~2000 $CAN p.a., a fee that is within the reach of almost all parents, and it also ran a bursary program for lower-income students...

[Timexwatch]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Once these higher-income parents have been given additional incentive to send their kids to private school, they have no reason to want to pay taxes to support public schools, and school budgets will shrink, hurting the lower-income students who still can't afford to go to school with the yuppies...

IIRC, outside state funding, property taxes are the top way that schools get funding. You pay this regardless of whether or not you have children. The only thing I think would shrink would be per-pupil state funding....

[KrazyHorse]

Jon, I understand that it would help in her situation, but the range of people for whom the 2500$ is make or break is very small. Mostly it's just free money for the upper segments of society, while doing nothing for those on the bottom.

Plus, your mother can barely afford to send one child through. There's no way she could have sent all of you through private school. Can you see the sort of situation this would put parents in?

It has to benefit the entire range of students, or it's going to just end up hurting those who get left out. Get half of the students in the country attending private schools and you can kiss any semblance of commitment to public funding of education goodbye.

[- Groucho -]

Look at it this way, Jon. I for one currently support the public school system. But if you bring in vouchers, I'll have to seriously think about pulling my kids from public school because of the damage that will be done to it. I'm willing to work with a flawed system to make it better, but if the government abandons that system, my kids are outta there.

I'm not alone. Vouchers will turn public schools into ghettos where the only attendees will be the ones who can't afford to get out. As much as I feel for your mom, all the kids who will be left behind have moms too.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Echinda
KH is exactly right. Add to that the problem that public schools will be required to teach the kids that private schools refuse to take (who are usually the ones that require more funding due to behavioural issues or special needs) and you've got a recipe for disaster.

I, for one, despite being a "yuppy" who could afford otherwise, am sending my kids to public school. For all the above reasons and because I don't want my kids to turn out to be private school snots.

so you would rather send you child to a public school where most girls are pregnant

there are 2 classes that migh prepare one for college (in AP lit class and Humanities, both taught by one teacher)

a senior class only has 40% graduation rate (that is of the people in the senior class, about half drop out before they get to that point)

where 20% of those who graduate then go on to get a post highschool degree (I think there might be a few who are still working on ones)

Crack and heavy drug use is over half of the student body

where the senior class president of the class below me was kicked out for prostitution

it is not a winning environment (and I knew many people who despite coming from decent homes did not make it to having a successful life, and none of those coming from more problem homes (That I know) have had a successful life)

private school does not have to turn your kids into snots

Jon Miller

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Timexwatch


IIRC, outside state funding, property taxes are the top way that schools get funding. You pay this regardless of whether or not you have children. The only thing I think would shrink would be per-pupil state funding....

The parents are the ones who vote on school budgets.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Echinda
Look at it this way, Jon. I for one currently support the public school system. But if you bring in vouchers, I'll have to seriously think about pulling my kids from public school because of the damage that will be done to it. I'm willing to work with a flawed system to make it better, but if the government abandons that system, my kids are outta there.

I'm not alone. Vouchers will turn public schools into ghettos where the only attendees will be the ones who can't afford to get out. As much as I feel for your mom, all the kids who will be left behind have moms too.

right now kids are being left behind

vouchers means that less are (but still to many)

we need to fix the public system

but why doom a generation while we try to fix the system?

and there are at least a few places where the public institutions are good (and sometimes better than the possible private institutions)

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Now if they were to make it so that basically all students to were able to take advantage of the private school system, I'd be all in favour of it.

I attended a semi-private (partially paid for by the government) high school. It cost ~2000 $CAN p.a., a fee that is within the reach of almost all parents, and it also ran a bursary program for lower-income students...

but with vouchers that puts the price for parents at 1400 dollars

that is possible for most parents

Jon Miller

[- Groucho -]

Jon: your example is unfair. Nowhere close to all public schools are like the one you describe. My daughter goes to a nice public elementary school with a great mix of kids from all income brackets. No, i wouldn't want her to go to the school you described. But I don't want to condem all the kids who can't afford to get out to schools like that either.

[- Groucho -]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
we need to fix the public system

but why doom a generation while we try to fix the system?

I agree. But taking money out of the public system through vouchers is going to make the problem worse, not better.

[Jon Miller]

but by putting on vouchers for problem schools it will allow student who want to to go elsewhere

while the school is being fixed

(those who don't caer will of course remain there, and that is their choice)

there are many schools like mine and students (expecially students who care like me) should not be forced to attend them

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Echinda


I agree. But taking money out of the public system through vouchers is going to make the problem worse, not better.

how is it taking money out of the public system

it definitely doesn't half to (if it does right now)

and also, one of the big problems with the public system is problems with waste

they spend money on the wrong things

Jon Miller