German court rules Nazi reprisal executions justified

[Pekka]

What do you mean which partisans?

[chequita guevara]

I know that Ukrainian partisans rounded up Jews and turned them over to the Nazis. Hadn't heard about Russian partisans killing villages.

[Pekka]

Well wiping villages would be the wrong word. They didn't kill masses. But enough to us anyway. When they were especially assigned to do it. They were at least two or three villages near the border where they attacked with nothing but civilians. The record shows that they killed soldiers, but in fact they were women and children. Few hundreds i think is the official number. It has been, and still is kind of touchy subject, and what makes it bad, is that they still celebrate them as heroes. We want an apologie.

[chequita guevara]

They should definately give one, but considering the kind of war WWII was, I don't think you'll get it. Civilians were considered legitmate targets by all sides, unfortunately.

[Pekka]

Yes i won't think we'll get one. It's not our political agenda number one, and it's not something that is oftenly spoken here, but it sure hell hasn't been forgotten. I just found official document about it... wait, i'll have to translate it.

[Pekka]

freely translated from http://www.mil.fi/ruotuvaki/03_02/19.html

During the continuance war finnish civilians were subjected to harsh acts of murders. They were carried by russian partisans who were discuised as civilians, too.

This document has been collected from those who lost their relatives, survivors, and from official documents.
The new document, released 15th of january, is graphical, and due to that fact, some of the acts couldn't be even released to public because of their gruesome nature.

The official number of victims is 176, which 70% are women and under 17 year old children. Document also clarifies that these acts are crimes against humanity and clearly crimes of war. The victims are not only the dead, but all who lived there.
--------------

and the rest is about the group who wants compensation for the relatives and what they are about to do..
Didn't know that one? I'm not surprised.

edit: point being, they were dressed as civilians, killing civilians, mostly women and young children. Doing nothing but that. Not dressing as soldiers killing soldiers. Not defending country. Just killing civilians. Dearing to call themselves heroes after that (the partisans). Some of the acts not even published because they were so harsh. Not even shameful about it. No courts, no apologies, nothing. Known fact, proof is overwhelming. Nothing. It's a big FU to their loved ones.

[Dr. Nick]

How can partisan activities be outlawed? The ICC takes away your right to defend yourself against foreign invasion by granting the right of life to the enemy soldier?! WTF?!

[Boris Godunov]

This seems absurd. There's a big difference between fighting back against partisan attacks and cold-bloodedly murdering defenseless prisoners in your charge. This ruling is crap.

[DinoDoc]

Wonder if this means the Soviet execution of over 10,000 Polish officers and the like were justified as well.

[Lorizael]

Violence became the only viable option during World War II only once the war was fully underway.

If Hitler had been stopped before the war had started, then none of the violence on the part of the partisans would have been necessary.

I know people will say I have the benefit of hindsight in this situation. People will say, "Of course there would be less violence if war had been averted, but the war did happen and you can't change that." And so violence was the only option.

But to that I say, we must then change the very way in which we do things in the world. All our focus, all of our resources, should be spent on preventing war and violence so that it never happens in the first place. Instead of constructing a military, learn who your enemy is.

And then turn your enemy into a friend. Because you cannot have a conflict if you do not have enemies. And when you consider one group of people to be an enemy, a conflict is that much easier to achieve.

We will never be able to tell the future. But if we learn how the world works, we can begin to predict it. And if we can predict it, we can make sure that wars don't happen.

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent," Isaac Asimov, Foundation.

I think I need to stop reading...

If only psychohistory did exist...

[chequita guevara]

I would agree with you. But sometimes we can't stop violence, either trough incompetence, or we weren't in charge of the situation we inhereited.

[Lorizael]

If it's because of incompetence then we can change it. Make those that are incompetent competent. Or find people that are competent.

And if it through inheritance, be the first person to change. Children believe what they are told because they have nothing else to believe. If you tell them that Jews suck, they'll believe it. If you tell them that everyone is equal and you should live your life trying to bring peace to the world, then most likely, that's what they will believe.

A person is only what their environment makes them. Create an environment in which people believe in peace and not violence. Slowly, it will change.

[chequita guevara]

My point is, you could be Churchill, and inhereit Chamberlin's policies. We aren't all powerful, and we have to work with the cards we're dealt. Sometimes violence is the only option. I realize that in our culture we resort to violence fairly quickly without looking at alterntives, but that doesn't mean that you can solve everything peacefully.

[Pekka]

che, what kind of thing you can't solve peacefully?

[chequita guevara]

That's something I dislike about Hyde Park. It's swarming with cops. Swarming. It's the only neighbor hood I've been in where I always see police. That's the power of the university.