American position on the PA

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Roland
Bush's election saw only little fraud, but that was likely decisive.

Actually, there was massive fraud in Florida. Most importantly, Govenor Bush illegally struck from the voter rolls 40,000 ex-cons who had moved from states where their voting rights had been restored. Despite being told twice by the courts to reinstate their voting rights, Bush has refused to do so. There is also the matter of the people who were mistakenly removed because their name was similar to a convicts name. The state actually told the company making the list not to do an error checking, even though it was specified in the contract. I can produce a copy of that memo.

Since the last election, the State of Florida has required the state itself to draw up the convict lists, yet Katherine Harris has already hired an outside firm to do this work. The current Administration seems to have little regard for the law.

[DanS]

Yeh, I always thought the democrats were a bunch of felons.

[chequita guevara]

[Faeelin]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
That's just silly move attempting to pull wool over everybody's eyes. The US knows that they can't get rid of Arafat, so Dubya is basing his support of a Palestinian State on his removal. He's thinking that, if the PA rejects his demand, he'd just shrug his shoulders and say, "Hey I tried."

It's clear as day how one-sided this proposal is, with absolutely no demand for Israel, nothing like removing all settlements on the West Bank, nothing like withdrawing from occupied territories.

You've just been added to my list of people with no common sense.

Perhaps he's saying that they don't have a chance in hell of getting their own state until they stop with terrorism. What, exactly, makes that an unacceptable demand?

Bush also called for, specifically, an end to Israeli settlements.

Now maybe you can get outraged over one of hte more serious cases of injustice and oppression.

[faded glory]

I reckon there are a few dozen ME threads already

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sharon isn't a terrorist.

Oh, that wasn't a joke?

----

Good thread, Markus. I agree with you. Elections are going to bring in Hamas or some hardliner in power, and then where will Bush be? Will he still create a provisional state if there were free and fair elections, like he said he would?

[Kropotkin]

The basic idea is pretty good. It would be a lot better for a number of reasons if the palestinians where lead by a group of people without blood on their hands (I think that's pretty good for any goverment really). But actually making it so in reality would be to rig the election.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Sharon isn't a terrorist.

Oh, that wasn't a joke?

----

Good thread, Markus. I agree with you. Elections are going to bring in Hamas or some hardliner in power, and then where will Bush be? Will he still create a provisional state if there were free and fair elections, like he said he would?

Are you and Marcus saying that the Palistinian people do not want peace with Isreal? If that is so, why is there any reason for Israel not to continue their current soulution? Is it impossible to find a person in the West Bank or Gaza without links to terrorism? Are you both saying that Arafat is the best that they have to offer?

[Dr Strangelove]

I think I have the problem solved: Mahatma Gandhi should take control of the PA and Neville Chamberlain should take the helm for Israel.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Are you both saying that Arafat is the best that they have to offer?

Sad isn't it.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Sad isn't it.

I honestly think everyone would be better off if Jordan assumed control of the West Bank. Maybe not good for Jordan though.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Are you both saying that Arafat is the best that they have to offer?

Probably... he's a moderate in this situation.

[DinoDoc]

Imran: Arafat is a bumbling, incompetent, foolish, liar. Any reasonably inteligent person would have recognized Hamas for what it was long ago and squshed it once he rose to power.

If he is the best that the Palestinians have, they are dire staights even if the occupation ends right now.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Perhaps.. but the idiotic thing is how can you have a democracy in a non-state. A democracy that doesn't really have self-rule? Silly.

And Arafat NEVER has had the power to squash Hamas, and no Palestinian leader will be able to in the next 20 years.

[Saint Marcus]

Are you and Marcus saying that the Palistinian people do not want peace with Isreal?

I never said that.

I was merely pointing out a potential problem and inconcistency in Bush' plans.

Bush wants pacificts to lead the PA. Bush also wants to make the PA more democratic. Those two goals don't mix. It is in fact dangerous to make the PA democratic. Should there be democratic elections in the PA, there are only two possible outcomes. A re-election of Arafat, which neither Bush nor Sharon wants, or the election of a Hamas (or pro-Hamas) hardliner, which is 10 times worse than Arafat. And yeah, there are people within the PA who are more moderate than Arafat. But there are few, and none could wish to win an election.

And should Arafat get re-elected, what would Bush then do? He can't go on saying that he wants to get rid of Arafat, since Arafat will be democratically elected in the way Bush wants a Palestinian leader to be elected. His whole play just backfired.

And it would be 10 times worse if a hardliner is elected. Bush got what he wanted. Rid of Arafat, and democratic elections for the PA. Yet the situation resulting from that is far worse than the situation is now.

In short: bad idea.

I wish I could just say that this is yet another Shrubya screwup, but sadly the EU is also (mostly) supporting this idea. I personally prefer to have the PA as it is, until a state has been given to them. Elections will only make matters far far worse, either by making Arafat's leadership legal and official, or by making way for extremists to run the PA.