American position on the PA

[CyberGnu]

So we should take France away from the french, since they supported deGaulle?

How about accepting that a people who live under oppression will elect any leader that looks like he can end the occupation... Regardless of method.

Some of you people disgust me.

The only real solution is to get the palestinians to stop hating Israel. The only way to do that is to end the occupation. and no pathetic posturing or endless propaganda is going to end that.

[DanS]

These ara all odd scenarios.

Of course the Palestinians won't support Hamas. Like they use to do in good old Britain, we'll just buy their votes. We'll make it worth their while. Nobody should be ashamed about such a transaction. Hamas, Iraq and Iran can't outbid us.

Everybody except the fringe will get what they want, should they place their faith in the Almighty Dollar.

[morb]

Originally posted by CyberGnu


And how is that different from Israel? Should we do the same there?

'Sure, you an elect any one you want for president, but unless it is Perez we will invade you'?

And this is going to improve the siutuation how?

you are missing one important point. If Israelis elected a government that supported terrorism and caused instability or wished destruction onto other states, your point would have valitidy. And if this were the case, I'd have no problem with the US or EU or both imposing economic sanctions and/or using force to improve stability.

[morb]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
So we should take France away from the french, since they supported deGaulle?

How about accepting that a people who live under oppression will elect any leader that looks like he can end the occupation... Regardless of method.

Some of you people disgust me.

The only real solution is to get the palestinians to stop hating Israel. The only way to do that is to end the occupation. and no pathetic posturing or endless propaganda is going to end that.

you think if they are given their own state the would stop hating Israel and subscribe to peace? hasn't that been offered, lets see there was that one time... and this other... hmm.. about a million times already within the past 30 or so years? Arafat's answer up until about 5 minutes ago was basically "palastine is from the river to the sea, no less."

so basically to have the PA stop hating Israel we should just disband Israel...

GOOD IDEA!

EDIT: I've already had my say about France in the Yurap vs. Amarika thread, I don't want to start it up again here.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Dr Strangelove, AFAIK, that worked ONCE (Carter)... The problem with hardliners is that they are usually insane...

I was thinking more in terms of Nixon and China, myself.

[Roland]

chegitz:

"Actually, there was massive fraud in Florida."

Well, it's all relative. Compared to Arafat or Kennedy, it was quite limited....

"The current Administration seems to have little regard for the law."

What does the word "seem" do in that sentence ?

Sprayber:

"This non-state limbo that they are in serves no one except Arafat and a few desk hounds in the UN. Actually the arab states seem to be doing ok with it."

It serves the likud and right of likud fascists too. Occupation deluxe - control, no responsibility, free hand to expand settlements, and a convenient enemy.

Morb:

" you think if they are given their own state the would stop hating Israel and subscribe to peace? hasn't that been offered, lets see there was that one time... and this other... hmm.. about a million times already within the past 30 or so years?"

Oh really ? When has a state been offered to the palestinians ? The only thing offered that vaguely resembled a state was exactly one single Barak proposal.

[CyberGnu]

Monk, oops, me bad... Yeah, I meant Nixon. Still the only example I know of....

[CyberGnu]

you are missing one important point. If Israelis elected a government that supported terrorism and caused instability or wished destruction onto other states, your point would have valitidy.

Well, that would be Sharon and Likud...

And if this were the case, I'd have no problem with the US or EU or both imposing economic sanctions and/or using force to improve stability.

Excellent! Write your congressman today!!!

[morb]

Originally posted by CyberGnu


Well, that would be Sharon and Likud...



Excellent! Write your congressman today!!!

you are an imbecile.

[CyberGnu]

you think if they are given their own state the would stop hating Israel and subscribe to peace? hasn't that been offered, lets see there was that one time... and this other... hmm.. about a million times already within the past 30 or so years? Arafat's answer up until about 5 minutes ago was basically "palastine is from the river to the sea, no less."

You might want to read up on some history... (real history, not the Israeli-invented kind).

After the Oslo treaty, palestinians thought they were eventually getting a real state. They had hope in their future. Polls show that Palestinians were accepting the state of Israel, basically wanting a state of their own and not much else.

Three years later, it was clear that Israel never intended to keep their word, and the palestinians became more cynical, more filled with hate, more extreme...

EDIT: I've already had my say about France in the Yurap vs. Amarika thread, I don't want to start it up again here.

Didn't read that one. Could you summarize? (Kind of curious. I thought Natan was the only true fascist on these forums... Even Siro acknowledged that the french resistance were justified in their actions...)

[CyberGnu]

you are an imbecile.

Excellent retort. Well, as long as it doesn't require you to consider the atrocities you defend it works for you, I guess.

[morb]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38762-2002Jun24.html

do you defend these atrocities then?

[Sikander]

I am absolutely in favor of elections for the Palestinians. Let them publicly and prominently declare what the hell they stand for, rather than allowing the PA and the terrorist organizations continually cloud the issue so that everyone sees what they want to see. Then let the Palestinians live with the results of their election. If they vote for a party inclined to look for peaceful coexistence with Israel, the Israelis will be under enormous pressure to meet them halfway. If they choose to continue their war on the innocent civilians of Israel only the Mobius and Cyber-Gnu brand of Israel haters will support them internationally, and the Pals can put their insane fundamentalism to the test of a trial by combat. If they lose, they can then enjoy a period of self-reflection and try to understand why Allah abandoned them. Every outcome seems an improvement on the current situation.

[GeneralTacticus]

Well, that would be Sharon and Likud...

When exactly has Sharon stated that he wishes to destroy Arab states? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard the Likkud advocating the mass genocide of the Palestinians, or calling them the sons of Satan.

[CyberGnu]

sikander:

If they vote for a party inclined to look for peaceful coexistence with Israel, the Israelis will be under enormous pressure to meet them halfway.

Which brings us back to what I posted earlier: Why on earth would they go for a 'peaceful alternative', if the only carrot they have is 'we might possibly consider at an uncertain potential future date to give some kind of concession'? If there was an ironclad deal that Israel would end the occupation and a viable palestinian state would be formed, then maybe they would be convinced to vote for a new party. But as it is, we all know that Israels word is worth less than the US Indian treaties, and the only question is wheter the palestinians are going to abandon the moderate PA and go directly for Hamas.