I don't understand why some people don't like gay people

[1]

How is it shallow to know what you want? I'm attracted to thin tone boys with highlights in their hair. It would be fake of me to say something like "Oh yes, I'm attracted to everyone equally." So in fact, I truely am open minded. I'm not afraid to admit what I do and do not want. However, I hope we didn't get off on the wrong foot, I'd hate to see this descend into a flame war.

[Asher]

I'm attracted to thin tone boys with highlights in their hair.

-----

Look, it's simple:
No one is attracted to everyone equally.
No one is not shallow on some level.

I just find it peculiar that people can have hangups with bisexuals.

It's a perfect case for biphobia, but nobody wants to deal with that. Everyone just writes it off as a preference whereas the bisexual people get flack from both the straight community and the gay community.

[1]

I think the main hangup is, that whoever dates a bisexual, will have twice as much compitition, and will have to fend off everyone reguardless of sex. =P

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Asher
It's not wrong when I said "You or MrFun", if it wasn't you it was MrFun. Do you know how boolean logic works, Boris?

Well, for the record, I don't recall MrFun asserting that, either, so you're still wrong. Boolean shmoolean.

I've never said anything about my standards of dating.

You've implied you consider dating preference to be one of blindness, and you've berated me for feeling differently. I'd say that's holding me to your dating standards.

I did no such thing, you've stated them clearly for all to see across two threads:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51025

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=50855

I've read those threads. See below.

Stop playing this game, Boris, you suck at it.
Here are your own words, verbatim:

I do not want to date a bisexual anymore than I want to date a heterosexual. I am attracted to gay men, I want to date gay men.

We were saying that, personally, we have no desire to date bisexual men.

It seems obvious to me that you're admitting that you don't want to date bisexual men on the grounds that they're bisexual.

How you make that leap is beyond me. Those two quotes say nothing about the rationale behind the preference, only the preference.

Nice, now we're entering several levels of hypocrisy here...

Well, you trotted out the "hypocrite" line first...

Never said it was.

Did too:

And it sickens me that after all your bull**** about equal rights you refuse to give those same minorities equal rights in your eyes.

Never used that word.

Nor did I say you did. Just citing it as an example of the ludicrous extremes one can take this argument.

Boris, I think you've got the wrong idea here.
I'm just saying that you rejecting people based on sexuality is shallow and closeminded. I'm not saying you must change it, that you must give everyone a chance. Everyone is shallow on some level. Would you date a 800lbs man? No. Would I? Certainly not.

You're attacking me over it is, therefore, bewildering. You've called me a bastard over it. That in no way demonstrates your above "diplomacy" over it. If you've mellowed over it, I can accept that. But I can vividly remember your rather vicious attacks over it before.

And I do not think it is shallow. You're stretching the definition of shallow to a level I would not take it to, nor would any reasonable people.

And I think I can safely say that the whole point is moot for you anyway. No bisexual man in their right mind would want to date an opera singer who only thinks he likes gay men...

Well, you're wrong there, but that's not relevant...

No need to call yourself a whore.

I don't see why experience has anything to do with it.

Because anyone who has dated will tell you that, until you've been out there and been doing that, you don't know what you're talking about. The amazing intricacies and factors involved in dating and romance are beyond the scope of someone who hasn't done it. You're trying to tell others they are shallow in romance when you've not experienced it yourself is ignorant.

You don't want to date someone because you don't think you can relate to them, seeing as they also are attracted to women (don't lie about this, I'm looking at the other threads you posted in about it).

I'm rather sick of your assertions that I would lie. I have never consiouscly lied in this forum, nor do I make it a practice to do so in real life. Your being rather slanderous. And I am looking at that thread. Here's what I posted:

First, I do not want to date a bisexual anymore than I want to date a heterosexual. I am attracted to gay men, I want to date gay men. It's about relating, I think. I don't think I could relate to a genuine bisexual (they do exist) like I could a fellow gay man.

This is the only time I ever gave a semblance of a rationale, and it was not a complete one. And in no way does that say "I don't want to date a bisexual because Idon't think I can relate to them, seeing as they also are attracted to women." It only says what it says, that I don't think I would relate to them.

That has to be the worst copout I've ever seen in an argument, because heterosexual relationships seem to work fine and they have far, far less in common in the sexual attraction department.

It is not a cop-out, as it is a belief that isn't based on your bogeyman "bisexual prejudice!" line.

What heterosexuals have in common is that they are attracted to the opposite gender.

Regardless of all this nonsense, it is still very much OT. I think the threadjacking should cease and desist.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Asher
It's a perfect case for biphobia, but nobody wants to deal with that. Everyone just writes it off as a preference whereas the bisexual people get flack from both the straight community and the gay community.

Whatever with a big "W." No one here, AFIK, has ever given any flack to bisexuals. I've been a staunch supporter of my bisexual friends and have never once expressed any sort of dislike for them as people. And no one here on they gay side has poo-pooed bisexuality as being somehow faux or selfish, like others have.

This persecution complex is really irritating. You and Fez could make a martyrs club.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
You've implied you consider dating preference to be one of blindness, and you've berated me for feeling differently. I'd say that's holding me to your dating standards.

When did I say that was my dating standards?
What makes you think those are my dating standards? I've never mentioned my dating standards at all, nor am I comparing them with anyone else's.

How you make that leap is beyond me. Those two quotes say nothing about the rationale behind the preference, only the preference.

Explain this to me Boris, because you've really confused me.
You've stated you don't want to date bisexuals, right?
Now how do you ever insist that this is not not dating them on the basis of them being bisexual? What else are you basing this on?

You're attacking me over it is, therefore, bewildering. You've called me a bastard over it.

You're a bastard for many reasons. I think you're a bastard because you don't want to date bisexuals, but that doesn't mean it's invalid for you to think that. I think you're a bastard because you are a bastard. Take comfort in knowing that I am a bastard as well.

But I can vividly remember your rather vicious attacks over it before.

I just find it offensive, and I've found your attitudes to be offensive and I'd have preferred if you kept it to yourself next time.

And I do not think it is shallow. You're stretching the definition of shallow to a level I would not take it to, nor would any reasonable people.

Oh please, I'm not stretching it. Shallow is shallow, it's "judging the book by its cover" and not getting to know the person. Everyone is shallow on some level. Whether or not they want to admit it to themselves is another thing.

Because anyone who has dated will tell you that, until you've been out there and been doing that, you don't know what you're talking about.

I have dated, Boris. I just don't want to date anymore. I personally find it a waste of my time, and I can't stand being smothered.

The amazing intricacies and factors involved in dating and romance are beyond the scope of someone who hasn't done it. You're trying to tell others they are shallow in romance when you've not experienced it yourself is ignorant.

Just because I don't want to date now doesn't mean I haven't done it in the past. If you must know I broke my own rule and was out on a date Saturday night, but I won't make that mistake again.

I'm rather sick of your assertions that I would lie. I have never consiouscly lied in this forum, nor do I make it a practice to do so in real life. Your being rather slanderous. And I am looking at that thread. Here's what I posted:

You're the one telling me I was lying, when your own words are still visible in the other threads...

It is not a cop-out, as it is a belief that isn't based on your bogeyman "bisexual prejudice!" line.

You would seriously insist you have nothing against bisexuals, even though you feel you can't date them?

What heterosexuals have in common is that they are attracted to the opposite gender.

That is possibly the stupidest rationale I've ever heard, for anything.
Heterosexuals aren't bonded closer together because they both are attracted to the opposite gender.

Regardless of all this nonsense, it is still very much OT. I think the threadjacking should cease and desist.

On the contrary, look at the title of the thread.
Very on topic.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Whatever with a big "W." No one here, AFIK, has ever given any flack to bisexuals. I've been a staunch supporter of my bisexual friends and have never once expressed any sort of dislike for them as people. And no one here on they gay side has poo-pooed bisexuality as being somehow faux or selfish, like others have.

You've not given bisexuals any flack?
You don't know what you're saying, do you? You don't realize the meaning behind your words, and it's getting to be sad...

This persecution complex is really irritating. You and Fez could make a martyrs club.

It's not a complex, Boris, most bisexuals will tell you they've had horrible receptions from the gay community as well as the straight community at least once. For example, the other threads clearly demonstrated that many straights and gays both don't "want to date bisexuals". That's not persecution, it's just hurtful. You just don't get it.

[Dis]

I love gay men. I wish most men were gay men.

That would just leave more chicks for me.

gay men

[Boris Godunov]

Explain this to me Boris, because you've really confused me.
You've stated you don't want to date bisexuals, right?
Now how do you ever insist that this is not not dating them on the basis of them being bisexual? What else are you basing this on?

Ya know, it's really hard to describe. I see your point, for certain. I've always believed there were 3 sexualities--straight, gay, bisexual. Being gay and being bi are not the same thing, no more than being gay and being straight are. The mindset is different. My mindset is that, when I picture my ideal lover, he is gay. Yes, I suppose it is a comfort with what I know and what is familiar. I truly don't understand how a person can be equally physically attracted to both genders. It boggles my mind. I don't knock it, I don't deny it (and many do). But I don't understand it. And yes, that would create a gulf between me and my lover I would prefer not to have.

Another thing is that, were I dating a bisexual, I would have a continual guilt thing about wondering if I were depriving that person of a fundamental part of his sexual identity, that being intimate contact with females. Being gay, I can't imagine giving up intimacy with men (as sporadic as mine may be). How could I expect my partner to essentially cut himself off from half of his identity? Maybe it doesn't work that way, but I don't know.

And then, if it doesn't work out, and he goes and starts dating a woman...well that's something I'd probably be crushed by. Considering being gay isn't exactly a picnic for anyone, to have a lover then move on to a woman would be incredibly hard to take, more so than if it were another man. And, were that to happen, it might just reinforce my suspicions of having "deprived" him of a part of his sexual identity. That's a burden I don't want to bear if I don't have to. Call it shallow, if you want. I can live with you thinking that. I do not think it is shallow, however.

I can accept that there are plenty of flaws in the above reasoning. But love and romance is rarely about reason. Trying to point out how irrational a person's feelings may be in this regard is only going to lead to circular arguments.

You're a bastard for many reasons. I think you're a bastard because you don't want to date bisexuals, but that doesn't mean it's invalid for you to think that. I think you're a bastard because you are a bastard. Take comfort in knowing that I am a bastard as well.

As a cynic you have a low threshold for bastardy, I suppose. I reject it, however. I do not consider myself a bastard in any way. I may have my faults, but to be a bastard requires deliberate malignant behavior towards others, IMO. I don't deliberately try to hurt anyone. If you do, and you're comfortable with that, then...well, sorry for you.

I just find it offensive, and I've found your attitudes to be offensive and I'd have preferred if you kept it to yourself next time.

I believe in being honest about my opinions, and the opinions were solicited. We all make prejudiced decisions in our lives, and especially in our loves lives (and we should). I don't go around berating people for their dating choices in general, so was just not prepared to meet that kind of response. I don't believe I stated my feelings in angry, insulting ways, so I think my upset over being treated that way is valid.

Oh please, I'm not stretching it. Shallow is shallow, it's "judging the book by its cover" and not getting to know the person. Everyone is shallow on some level. Whether or not they want to admit it to themselves is another thing.

By a dictionary definition, fine. In that case, we're all shallow about something, sure. But what's the point of having such a broad definition when it relates to an argument of this kind? Since I could label any decision you make shallow, it seems an exercise in futility to even mention the word, unless you're just looking for a quick way to rile people.

I have dated, Boris. I just don't want to date anymore. I personally find it a waste of my time, and I can't stand being smothered.

I have dated bisexuals, Asher. I just don't want to date one anymore (as it stands now). I personally found them to be uncomfortable experiences. Do I think all bisexuals are like those guys? No. But if you can cut yourself off from the dating scene based on the limited experiences you've had, I don't see why I can't selectively do so based on mine.

Just because I don't want to date now doesn't mean I haven't done it in the past. If you must know I broke my own rule and was out on a date Saturday night, but I won't make that mistake again.

Well, I'm glad you're getting out, at least.

You're the one telling me I was lying, when your own words are still visible in the other threads...

Yes, my words are there, and I don't see an instance in which I've lied. So I don't appreciate being accused of such. If I contradicted myself, which is possible, I did not do so intentionally.

You would seriously insist you have nothing against bisexuals, even though you feel you can't date them?

Honestly, I have never considered it an issue of having something "against" bisexuals, but rather something "for" gay men. It just so happens that the only feasible alternative for me would be bisexual men. I'm not anti-bisexual, I'm pro-gay men.

That is possibly the stupidest rationale I've ever heard, for anything.
Heterosexuals aren't bonded closer together because they both are attracted to the opposite gender.

Well, it was 1 AM, but I didn't state it completely. It ties into what I stated above. Two heterosexuals are both only attracted to one gender, albeit the opposite one. Two gays, same thing. Bisexuals are attracted to both, and that is outside the comprehension for most heterosexuals and homosexuals. As I said, it's something that I just don't understand. That's not my only rationale, but it is a factor that is still there.

On the contrary, look at the title of the thread.
Very on topic.

Is this why you hate gay men?

You've not given bisexuals any flack?
You don't know what you're saying, do you? You don't realize the meaning behind your words, and it's getting to be sad...

I honestly don't consider not wanting to date a bisexual as "giving them flack." I've dealt with rejection on various grounds several times, as everyone has. Someone not wanting to date me because I'm too short for his tastes isn't flack, it's just the way attraction and romance works. Big deal, move on. Some guys aren't interested in me because I'm white. I'm not insulted by this, it doesn't offend me at all. I move on with my life...

It's not a complex, Boris, most bisexuals will tell you they've had horrible receptions from the gay community as well as the straight community at least once.

I never denied that. In fact, I pointed that very thing out. But I don't believe any bisexual has received such a horrible reception here. Nobody has, AFIK, bashed bisexuals.

For example, the other threads clearly demonstrated that many straights and gays both don't "want to date bisexuals". That's not persecution, it's just hurtful. You just don't get it.

I don't think it showed many. In fact, it showed very few.

I honestly would never suspect anyone would be really hurt by a decision not to date them. But I won't say your feelings here are invalid. I'm interested in knowing why its hurtful, though. I've never been hurt by someone rejecting me for dating. A little irritated, but never hurt. I guess I've always just said that, if they don't want to date me, that's their decision, so I will move on.

As I've said, nothing in my decision is about hurting anyone. It's about doing what I feel is best for my own well-being. I reject the notion that to consider one's own preferences over what may hurt another in terms of dating is shallow, or even remotely wrong. It's just a fact of life for every human being.

I'm done arguing this. As I've said, it's quite possible things may change for me in the future on this matter. Ive never been adverse to changing my mind. But for now my preference is pretty strong.

[Asher]

Boris, I'm too tired to type out big long replies.

You don't want to date bisexuals, fine, leave it at that. You have your reasons. I've got mine for disagreeing with that attitude.

You're not going to change that attitude, and I'm not going to change mine.

We're done.

[Faboba]

I don't get why people have to keep on making such a big deal of it. So some people like members of the same sex instead of, or as well as, members of the opposite sex.

Who cares? Let them get on with it.

I'm tired of having my time wasted by threads/TV programs/political campaigns about how 'disgusting' or 'unnatural' it is and by the same token I'm fed up being delayed by gay pride parades which seem to be wandering down this or that street every day during the holidays.

Basically I can't understand why anyone would feel it is either the 'biggest problem in the world today' ( or for that matter, a problem at all ) or that the fact their either homosexual or bisexual is their defining characteristic.

I won't say seeing two men getting off with each other in public doesn't weird me out a little but so does seeing a striaght couple ( or for that matter two women ). I'm basically a prude. I don't see why people need to try and make sex the definitive drive in their life. It's not that fucking important.

[morb]

Originally posted by Faboba
I don't get why people have to keep on making such a big deal of it. So some people like members of the same sex instead of, or as well as, members of the opposite sex.

Who cares? Let them get on with it.

I'm tired of having my time wasted by threads/TV programs/political campaigns about how 'disgusting' or 'unnatural' it is and by the same token I'm fed up being delayed by gay pride parades which seem to be wandering down this or that street every day during the holidays.

Basically I can't understand why anyone would feel it is either the 'biggest problem in the world today' ( or for that matter, a problem at all ) or that the fact their either homosexual or bisexual is their defining characteristic.

I won't say seeing two men getting off with each other in public doesn't weird me out a little but so does seeing a striaght couple ( or for that matter two women ). I'm basically a prude. I don't see why people need to try and make sex the definitive drive in their life. It's not that fucking important.

not getting any?

[KrazyHorse]

I was thinking that too, but decided not to say it.

[faded glory]

Originally posted by Dissident
I love gay men. I wish most men were gay men.

That would just leave more chicks for me.

gay men

Yes. Now that you say it like that!

More gay men!

Leave the women to the real men