European Hypocracy

[Ming]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
well that sounds an awful lot like corruption to me ...

No kididng, because it is a lot of corruption... that's why I always laugh when people say a "popular" vote system is more fair. Again... ther are problems with both systems

[Kropotkin]

Chicago is pretty infamous for that...

That's another serious problem that became pretty clear last election (as we can't forget even if we want to). In other countries with about the same level as rich democraties there's no way that a election is that easy to fix. Just that one has to register to vote seems a bit peculiar and that the elections doesn't have to be on sundays.

[reds4ever]

Krop,
you have to register to vote in the Uk, and it's hard getting credit, a mortgage etc. if youre not on the register

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Perhaps Australian solution that everyone should vote or face a fine is the best.. at least we would make citizens think for 1 day in four / five years

No kididng, because it is a lot of corruption... that's why I always laugh when people say a "popular" vote system is more fair. Again... ther are problems with both systems

huh... there are other things in the system that need to change first, that is true.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
Perhaps Australian solution that everyone should vote or face a fine is the best.. at least we would make citizens think for 1 day in four / five years

No kididng, because it is a lot of corruption... that's why I always laugh when people say a "popular" vote system is more fair. Again... ther are problems with both systems

huh... there are other things in the system that need to change first, that is true.

but what if none of the candidates represents your views?

[Ming]

Originally posted by reds4ever but what if none of the candidates represents your views?

I REALLY wish we had a "none of the above" choice in our elections... and if it won, new candidates would have to be picked by all parties

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Ming


I REALLY wish we had a "none of the above" choice in our elections... and if it won, new candidates would have to be picked by all parties

Than we woudl have an election loop as the "none of the above" would be the winner all the time.

But if we added that the candidates go to state prison for a year if "none of the above" was elected than we would have some good promises thrown at us

[Kropotkin]

We have blanks here. Use them all the time. Very nice.

[Ned]

Kropotkin, My only point is that if the US is going to go around the world advocating others change the way they do things, i.e., promoting "American" values, I think we American ought to agree on what they are. I would not agree, for example, with Carter that a universal public health care system is an American value.

We "share" a lot of values, such as the right of free speech, with others in the world, particularly with the Europeans. If what Imran means by advocating American values reduces only to advocating values broadly shared by others, then why should we bother? Since the Europeans broadly share these values, let them take the lead in spreading these values to places in the world that do not have them today.

What makes America unique, however, is our constitution. There are very few countries in the world that are even remotely structured like the United States. Most would say that the US form of government is purely inconsequential to our success. But I would disagree.

I find it somewhat pathetic that the Afghans are now struggling with basic governmental structure issues. Some advocate a legislature elected to represent the population evenly. Others, the tribes evenly.

The US system accomodates both. They should simply adopt the US constitution with the tribal areas as "states." It would fit Afghanistan well.

[Ming]

I have a friend who always writes in his own name as a "write in candidate"... So when the newpaper publishes the official final results, he gets his name mentioned in the paper

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Ming


I REALLY wish we had a "none of the above" choice in our elections... and if it won, new candidates would have to be picked by all parties

but how long before some politcian changes his name to "none of the above" and cashes in?

never overestimate the electorate, remember Florida?

[Kropotkin]

Ned: It of cource depends on how much value one estimates to formal institutions as a constitution. i would like to stress the importance of informal institutions as well. I'm not that impressed with it at all as I don't see it as anything unique about it in a wider meaning of the word. I'm more for the parliementary system and proportional elections myself if I had to make a pragmatic choice.

As for the afghanian situation your idea of dividing it into "states" is at first glance not a bad idea at all. As you might remember I took up the adoption of the British system in colonies that went bad as it meant that one group took control (the british system is really a form of 4 year elected dictatorships). A federal system is possibly a lot better than that. Federations are not however, as far as I know, an american invention.

[Ned]

Federations are not however, as far as I know, an american invention.

True, but it took two attempts at drafting a constitution (Confederation first), a civil war, and a long political development we see in our amendments to get to where we are today. We should recommend the US system to others as a well developed and nearly "perfect" system. Others system will of course work, but ours works very well indeed.

A major benefit of adopting our system is that there is a 200 year history of Supreme Court case law that breathes life into our constitution.

[Kropotkin]

200 years that it has used to adopt to and change the US. Might no at all be a good idea to apply to another country in a totally different situation. Besides, it's not the only political system with a long history.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Sprayber


We have to fill in the time before Asher and KH come online somehow.

Are you saying that we fight?