Sharon Acts!

[Panag]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
King David Hotel... they went for British soldiers but knew that civilians would be there as well. That's targetting civilians to me.

Also right after Israel was created, the masscre of Palestinian people in towns.

hi ,

reports in the early 90 have revealed they did not know , ....and several members offered there sincere apology's , .....

massacre in town , hmmm , that is new , .... since when , ...

have a nice day

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
This is boring. I've decided that I'm blaming capitalism for the ME debacle.

The real reasons:

1) Jews deciding to return to Israel (Caused by failure of emancipation in europe and persecutions) and not being prepared to deal with palestinians living there or immigrating there from syria and jordan.

2) Arabs saw their once great empire and culture crumble before european imperialism. They wish to once again rpove they are as great, by defeating Israel (in thier eyes, the remaining emperialism) and America (strongest power, what arabs once were)

3) Arab local leaders worrying for their strength diminishing when jews come to power.

4) Religious leaders seeing this as yet another crucade, and warring for the sanctity of muslim land (which should never be ruled by non muslims again)

5) The Brittish, promising parts of the same land to the jews and arabs at the same time. Later instigating one local group at another, in hope to prevent them from organizing against the Mandate.

6) Clash of civilizations: mostly european intellectual jews come to meet medieval and feudal arabs. Arabs see jews as occupiers and burden. Jews see arabs as primitive locals.

* I know that this is full of exaggurations and generalizations. That's the point. It's a combination of all these reasons at certain amount.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
King David Hotel... they went for British soldiers but knew that civilians would be there as well. That's targetting civilians to me.

Also right after Israel was created, the masscre of Palestinian people in towns.

erm, actually let me fill in your knowledge of the hotel:

As the bomb was entered into the basement, the Irgun held some 35 people at gunpoint in the kitchen. They were explicitly told to "take off, once we leave" as a bomb was planted.

The bomb had 30 minutes delay.

After 10 minutes, a small bomb was exploded infront of the hotel, to frighten people from getting near.

After 15 miunutes, the Irgun evacuated it's men from the hotel, and called up the Hotel itself, the French embassy, and the Palestine Post about the bomb, about to go off in 15 minutes.

People began leaving, but apparently the British though it was a hoax and tried to quell the panic.


As for the 'massacare of palestinians in towns' it's also mostly a legend, based on scarce incidents, mostly Deir Yassin.

In Deir Yassin, even Palestinian accounts, admit that there were fighters among the villagers. The death accounts admit that several of the dead were "fighters".

The Irgun wanted to evacuate the people out of the village, as it was a good post to the road leading to blocked Jerusalem.

They met armed resistance from Iraqi commandos who were present in the camp. After a battle in which several Irgun members died and dozens were injured, they rounded up the people.

One of the women, suddenly shot them. It appears that it was a man in women's disguise. Driven by panic and rage the Irgun members began shooting at him and people around it, thus killing quite a lot of innocent people.

So in a way, it was a massacare, though not intended and premeditated.

After the event, around a 100 palestinians were evacuated from the place.

The Press and Red Cross were called by Irgun members who held a press conference.

Actual massacares, for instance of a medical supply convoy, was made by the Arab armies, just days after the Dier Yassin incident.

[KrazyHorse]

It's still the fault of capitalism.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Blame the concept of morality them .

There's no need to blame morality. You and the people from Kahane's movement are merely wrong. It isn't wise to shift your own faults in order to avoid facing them.

[Sirotnikov]

KH - no it's not.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So in a way, it was a massacare, though not intended and premeditated.

They say the same about American masscres like My Lai, but doesn't change the fact that they are abhorrant. And even if you clear the area, blowing up a bomb in an hotel IS targetting civilians.

There's no need to blame morality. You and the people from Kahane's movement are merely wrong. It isn't wise to shift your own faults in order to avoid facing them.

Wrong? Coming from a 'moral relativist'?

I have no moral faults. It is the colonizers that have that burden.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Wrong? Coming from a 'moral relativist'?

Since when? Pragmatic, maybe.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I have no moral faults. It is the colonizers that have that burden.

Purposeful murder of civilians is always a moral fault. Power position is irrelevent

[Imran Siddiqui]

I disagree (that it is always a moral fault). Nagasaki was justified.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I disagree (that it is always a moral fault).

Convince me of the moral justification for the "The War of the Buses" then.

[JCG]

Sheesh...Reading you guys, one would think the ONLY solution to this crisis would be the nuking of Israel/Palestine....

[Imran Siddiqui]

JCG: Ya know that isn't a bad idea...

Convince me of the moral justification for the "The War of the Buses" then.

I'm not going to convince you of anything (nor you me, btw), but the people there are convinced that is a moral action because those people are part of the colonizers. Strike at the most vunerable, and maybe the rest will fold.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Strike at the most vunerable, and maybe the rest will fold.

So, you're saying that they aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I never said they were smart .