Canadian Police demonstrate the proper handling of rabble

[Zoid]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Kamrat. I have to agree with Asher.

Violence is never going to win support.

Violence against people and property is only going to alienate people. Period. Remember Ghandi, and more importantly, why he won.

Have I supported wanton acts of destruction? Do I think this is a smart tactic to gain support for the cause? If you answer yes to these questions you obviously need to read my posts again...

And Ghandi "won" because it suited the imperialist power of Britain. India had become a liability and a nuisance, therefore they let them go. Ghandi had very little to do with this.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And Ghandi "won" because it suited the imperialist power of Britain. India had become a liability and a nuisance, therefore they let them go. Ghandi had very little to do with this.

Read your history. One of the MAIN reasons India was liability and a nuisance was because of Gandhi's actions.

Now, I don't think that peaceful resistance is going to win everywhere (ie, Algeria, Vietnam proves the opposite), but Gandhi was a major factor in the British leaving.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kamrat X



Even one as ignorant as you must be aware of the fact that the anti-globalization movement´s got a lot more going now then it did pre-Seattle. The violence hasn´t harmed us as much as you´d like to think...

Well . . . IMHO the violence in Seattle is like most violence . . . it attracts more rabble-rousers and agitators and entrenches viewpoints such that the protest group is increasingly marginalized. So the movement "grows" at exactly the same time as it becomes increasingly irrelevant on the issues to a larger and larger proportion of the population. I will listen to any argument and may even agree on many issues with the active protestors but right now all i see are a bunch of groups whose goal seems to be to merely disrupt and destroy

I just did a quick scan for G-8 sites and guess what ?? the vast majority of them are about security and how to deal with the violence and property damage expected from the protestors. So I don't know exactly what message the protestors are trying to get out except thay don't like "globalization

This quote is typical

" I think the most dangerous forces are the combination of international corporate power and the governments who support them. The idea of powerful leaders meeting in secret is a symbol of the way we don't want the world to go"

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Flubber
I always find the purpose of these protests to be a little confused and confusing. The main, and sometimes only, message that gets out is about the violence.

I find the story tolde from the protestors point of view to be revealing. In almost all these protests, the police erct a barricade and essentially say " go this far and no farther". For some reason the protestors can never respect a barricade and it almost invariably comes down. Then its the police's fault that they react to this
????

I live in Calgary and we are bracing for the G-8 summit nearby. There have been stories regarding the necessary security, traffic disruptions and as Asher pointed out, the attempt to camp in parks. I have also read of a number of businesses that will close for the duration as they expect damage from the protestors and the insurance companies have specifically excluded protest damage ( or made it prohibitively expensive).

There might be some messages put forth by the protestors that I might agree with if they were put forth rationally but when all I see is a rabble protesting globalization, the only thing I am thinking is that I hope there are a lot of police about to keep my family safe

The demonization of protesters and unwanted critics is legio in these circumstances. Desinformation and provocateurs is another tactic used to crack down on those who say things the bourgeousie doesn´t want to hear. These tactics were used in Gothenburg for instance. In Barcelona police provocateurs were caught on film.

These tactics are not new, the nazis used them to get rid of the opposition in the ´30s.

[Asher]

Kamrat: The fact remains the protests do nothing for the cause.

Unless there's violence, there's no news coverage for the protestors. Nobody cares what they think, to be honest. Why would you listen to someone's opinion when they're strapping themselves to a tree, wearing a gas mask, etc? They don't seem very sane to me.

Then the problems compound when they're shouting and screaming at the ministers, blocking them from getting where they need to go, and eventual violence due to the mob mentality.

It's so pathetic that the message of their cause is lost, and instead all everyone sees is a bunch of misfits with a hammer & sickle on their shirt or an anarchist fist terrorizing a neighborhood. What a way to spread the cause.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Asher
Kamrat: The fact remains the protests do nothing for the cause.

Massive protests in the streets of Belgrade toppled the Milosevic regime. Same in in Prague and Bucharest.

I don´t think we can topple the capitalist regime as easily, but we´re showing the world that we don´t tolerate the negative effects of capitalism on people and enviroment.

We may be a minority, but we are a loud minority. And sooner or later people will start to listen...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Massive protests in the streets of Belgrade toppled the Milosevic regime. Same in in Prague and Bucharest.

I didn't know they were anti-globalization protests .

We may be a minority, but we are a loud minority. And sooner or later people will start to listen...

Don't hold your breath.

As you look people are tuning you out. You have the reputation as violent idiots by most people and as Flubber said, are being marginalized. The 'cause' might be bigger, but it has been greatly hurt by this violence, because people just don't care about your issues anymore and just see the violence, and know they don't want any part of that.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
We may be a minority, but we are a loud minority.

Like a crying baby in a restaurant...

And sooner or later people will start to listen...

Just like how everyone listened to the anti-NAFTA protestors, right?

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Massive protests in the streets of Belgrade toppled the Milosevic regime. Same in in Prague and Bucharest.

I didn't know they were anti-globalization protests .

We´re talking "the cause" in general terms here. The people in Belgrade, Prague and Bucharest threw of the shackles of opression. We aim to do the same. Different opression, same struggle.

Don't hold your breath.

I don´t. I´m tried in these matters...

As you look people are tuning you out. You have the reputation as violent idiots by most people and as Flubber said, are being marginalized. The 'cause' might be bigger, but it has been greatly hurt by this violence, because people just don't care about your issues anymore and just see the violence, and know they don't want any part of that.

Possibly, this is our own fault as well as medias. We´ll just have to try harder to reach out with our issues.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Asher

Like a crying baby in a restaurant...

... or Albertans...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Osweld
... or Albertans...

If that was true, those crying babies in restaurants would be paying a big chunk of your bill...hmm...no, that doesn't work. Try again.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
We´re talking "the cause" in general terms here. The people in Belgrade, Prague and Bucharest threw of the shackles of opression.

The shackles of Communist opression?

In case anybody reading this remembers that I was writing up a paper on anti-globalization, I just want to take this opportunity to thank anybody who helped, and to let you all know that I got the lowest grade in my class (A 75%) and ended up with the lowest final grade, which was also a C. Not y'alls' fault of course, my paper kicked ass after I got help from you all, but my professors just didn't seem to think it was all that great.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kamrat X


Massive protests in the streets of Belgrade toppled the Milosevic regime. Same in in Prague and Bucharest.

I don´t think we can topple the capitalist regime as easily, but we´re showing the world that we don´t tolerate the negative effects of capitalism on people and enviroment.

We may be a minority, but we are a loud minority. And sooner or later people will start to listen...

So YOUR particular goal is to overthrow capitalism . . . Well I won't be supporting that particular viewpoint but to each their own.

As for the places that you have cited as throwing off oppression . . . Have they not all now embraced capitalism to some extent?

I read a bit further into some of the G-8 sites and it seems that I am totally mislead by the media which has been co-opted by the establishment . It seems like the protest groups believe that the populace can't wait to jump to their own particular cause if only the media would accurately and fairly present their side of things . . .

Well I can't say that there wll be a big groundswell in Canada to overthrow our "capitalist" system no matter how much that message gets out . Now messages on environmental issues and even corporate power might have more receptive audiences if it wasn't tainted with violent protests

Do people realize how much has been written here about the threat and fear of violence ?? Well its a LOT -- The average person in Calgary is AFRAID of these protest groups and the harm they may do to their lives

I'm just happy that I bicycle-commute so I can avoid most of the traffic snarls and hassles-- I might even just avoid the urban core altogether if my employer lets me work from home

[Seeker]

Still no one has actually been able to say what the issues are and why the protestors are protesting....amazing.

[Imran Siddiqui]

We´re talking "the cause" in general terms here. The people in Belgrade, Prague and Bucharest threw of the shackles of opression. We aim to do the same. Different opression, same struggle

Keep telling yourself that . Their struggle had a MUCH better chance of success as well. The majority supports capitalism.