Wherein do the roots of Anit-semiticsm lie?

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Azazel


This still doesn't glue up. So he's explaining the rise of modern , non-religious antisemitism, which begun at the 19th century, with the fact that jews supposedly started to be pushed away by the local merchants that used the modern anti-semitism as a tool of taking them out, by the pretext of nationalism (i.e. "they're aliens" ) . The problem in that is that to create such a picture, you have to take as a precondition the supposed fact that jews held a unique trading niche that noone or almost noone other, before the industrial and national changes , held. This is wrong , of course. Not all jews took up this niche, and not all the people that took up this niche were jews.

It seems like I have to study some jewish history to go any further in this. You have any books you think I should read, Azazel? Perferably not too biased...

I'd also , as a side note , would like to point out the falseness of arguments like this:

"It is incorrect to state that a solution for the Jewish problem has been needed for two thousand years. The very fact that in the course of this long period such a solution was not found best demonstrates that it was not necessary."

Is the fact that a solution hasn't been found for two millenia a proof of the non-existance of the problem ?

All in all, you have to give this guy some credit. He wrote it during the Holocaust.

What I think what Léon meant is that there was no problem to begin with, thus no solution was necessary. Again it´s a confusing choice of words on his part.

[chequita guevara]

Lars-E, don't take your history directly from the Bible. The Hebrews are beliwed to have invaded Egypt along with the Hyksos. When Egypt finally overthrew its former masters, its former masters became the slaves.

Furthermore, the Philistines were decendents of the original Attic Greeks who were chased out of Greece by the Doric Greeks (except around Athens).

[Jon Miller]

I thought the Philistines were phonecians

Jon Miller

[Az]

Che, that would actually made sense, because, in the bible , Joseph is a Viceroy ( of sorts ) , and It is later told that the government has changed , and the next pharoh didn't like the Hebrews. I'd say that the farther back we go in the bible, the less true are the stories. The exodus is in that "grain of truth area". One thing I am not sure of. I thought that the philistines are part of the hyksos?!

Jon: Phoenicians are a Canaanite tribe,IIRC. The art and crafts of the philistines vary from the canaanites.

KX: Well, Try to search the web. Keep your eyes peeled for racists, though.

on a side note , I would like to introduce you to a site that some of you may know , but I'll post the link anyway. It's a site about the various world mythologies. Fascinating. ( I've learned a lot about Hebrew mythology , and I thought myself quite literate in the subject .) It's amazing ! :

http://www.pantheon.org

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Azazel

KX: Well, Try to search the web. Keep your eyes peeled for racists, though.

Right!

[chequita guevara]

Hyksos means foreign kings. The Mykenaens and the Hyksos were the same people, but one group conquered Greece, the other Egypt. Living in Cannan when the Hyksos moved through, the Hebrews picked up and went with.

Around 1200 BC, the Dorians invaded Greece, sending the Mykenaens (aka Arcadeans aka Atticans) fleeing across the Mediterranian. They attacked Egypt, then conqered Cannan, founded Carthage, etc.

JM, yes, Phoenecian and Philistines are the same people.

[Az]

Carthage ?! Wasn't Carthage phoenician? You can clearly see that by the name "Hanibal" which is a canaanite name ( notice the ba'al ending, who was a Canaanite feritility god.)

[chequita guevara]

Yep. Same people.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Azazel

on a side note , I would like to introduce you to a site that some of you may know , but I'll post the link anyway. It's a site about the various world mythologies. Fascinating. ( I've learned a lot about Hebrew mythology , and I thought myself quite literate in the subject .) It's amazing ! :

http://www.pantheon.org

A lot of nice reading there, maybe I should change my name to something like Baal or Marduk, Asmodeus is also nice but IIRC it´s already taken

And Carthage was indeed founded by the phoenicians...

[chequita guevara]

Phoenician means purple-dye makers. Cannan was known for its purple dye. The Phoenicians gave us the alphabet (hence the word phonetics, etc). But they were originally Greek refugees.

There were two groups of Greeks, the Mykenaens, who gave us the stories of Homer, the myths and legends or heroes an Gods. The Dorians invaded in 1200BC, sent Greece into a Dark Age and later created the Classical Age.

[Az]

the Philistines were decendents of the original Attic Greeks

Phoenecian and Philistines are the same people

It cannot be! the Phoenicians are Canaanites! They share the same religion , and customs!

(don't tell me that the canaanites are actually greeks. )

[Az]

KX, There is a poster named Asmodean , but he doesn't post anymore AFAIK . I actually considered that nick as well.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Azazel
It cannot be! the Phoenicians are Canaanites! They share the same religion , and customs!

They conquered Cannan, they were outsiders.

[Az]

Are you sure ? Because I am pretty sure that they were a canaanite tribe , that travelled north and established itself on the coast of what is today lebanon. ( I also so this in a computer game, Empire earth, so it MUST be true ! )

[chequita guevara]

I'm positive.