Russia in ten years

[DanS]

"No matter how long they teach their kids ukraininan, they speak/act/are russian."

My reference books put the ratio as ~73% Ukrainian, ~22% Russian. That would seem to be at odds with your assertion. Further, the percentage of Ukrainians is higher in the countryside versus the city, which could skew your perceptions.

[Ecthy]

And there's something else: I know at least one Ukrainian who did nothing like that but moved to Israel instead, although he'll stone me for calling him an Ukrainian

[Heresson]

I'm almost started to miss your speeches about Great Poland.

Double post. Sorry.

[Heresson]

I'm almost started to miss your speeches about Great Poland.

That's sweet.

[Az]

Ecthlion : Eli?

DanS: what morb says it true. most people in the Ukraine don't even know Ukrainian. IIRC. their ties with Russia are very strong. During the soviet era, at least one of the leaders was a "ukrainian" , Khrushchev(sp?).

[DanS]

"their ties with Russia are very strong."

I don't doubt that, Dal. But the formation of a "Greater Russia" is unlikely, considering that an overwhelming majority of Ukrainians identify themselves as having Ukrainian ethnicity, not Russian.

Further, I don't doubt that Morb talks with few people who identify themselves as Ukrainian, considering that there is a much higher percentage of Ukrainians in the countryside. However, I'm suggesting that his experience is skewed.

If he could tell us how much time he spent in the countryside v. Kiev, that would be helpful.

[morb]

Originally posted by DanS
"their ties with Russia are very strong."

I don't doubt that, Dal. But the formation of a "Greater Russia" is unlikely, considering that an overwhelming majority of Ukrainians identify themselves as having Ukrainian ethnicity, not Russian.

Further, I don't doubt that Morb talks with few people who identify themselves as Ukrainian, considering that there is a much higher percentage of Ukrainians in the countryside. However, I'm suggesting that his experience is skewed.

If he could tell us how much time he spent in the countryside v. Kiev, that would be helpful.

first of all, there are just as many of these "75% ukraininans" in RUSSIA with names like Dobrenko or kravchuk who've been russian for so long all they have left that's Ukrainina is their last name. Can you imagine? The two "countries" have been one unified country long before the annexation of others and before the SU was even a possibility. 350(?) years of mutual coexistance. but more than that, we have been ONE country ONE people for so long, its even rediculous to call us any different. You can't tell us apart.

as far as "people from country side," I have many freinds here from the former republics, one girl is from a town near dnepropetrovsk. her last name also ends in an "o" but she doesn't tell you she's ukrainian, because she doesn't even speak the language. she's russian more than even I since I also have a jewish dose in me. one of my better friends is from "the ukrainian country side." his story is similar to this girl's.

the only "ukrainins" who speak of independence are those who are drunk on power or those in the far west of ukraine who are typically polish ukrainians from the terretories taken back from poland. hey, if they want to move to poland, i won't mind. poland can have them. the rest are russian.

also, it's a bit insulting for you to say that you might know more than me about these things because you've looked up CIA world factbook, i've looked at those numbers too. the difference is i have the real world culture and have experiance that you lack.

[Az]

DanS: the only possible exeptions are the westernmost provinces. But even that is doubtful.

Many of my "ukrainian" friends , that lived there , barely speak a word of two of ukrainian, and definetly feel like "Russians".

any divide would be fake and unnatural. really.

[DanS]

" also, it's a bit insulting for you to say that you might know more than me about these things because you've looked up CIA world factbook, i've looked at those numbers too."

Oh, grow some skin, dude. It's not the first time that anecdotal evidence would bring about an incorrect conclusion. I was going by the following report based on '95 self-identification surveys...

http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/ebspr98a.html

[Az]

That doesn't say much, really. It's like people identifying themselves as Texans. Russia would have the Ukraine as an equal partner in any confederation, not a minion. It was an equal partner during Soviet times as well, and as I pointed out , one of the soviet leaders was Ukrainian. It doesn't really matter . They share the same culture, the same past times. Separation is unnatural. You'll see.

[DanS]

"It doesn't really matter . They share the same culture, the same past times. Separation is unnatural. You'll see."

Well, you say that. But the self identification surveys show a trend toward a Ukrainian identity and culture, some of which is government enforced and some of which is due to demographic changes.

The Texas analogy isn't perfect. There has never been a language difference between Texas and the rest of the U.S., for instance.

[Az]

there is no language difference between Ukraine and Russia as well. Most people speak Russian as their mother tongue. plus, what about all the mexicans in texas ?

[DanS]

When they overrun Texas, then it will be a better analogy, but no sooner.

[Ecthy]

Isn't Israel basically the Middle East's Texas?

[Az]

well, they were there before it "joined" the union , right?