Communists, Capitalists, Whatever, Convince Me.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Dalgetti

you're so full of ****. I've lived in the soviet union, and many things WERE ****ed up there. noone was forced to wear the same clothes, and be sad , or something. you're full of ****. Eli knows that things weren't bad in the SU, as everyone portrays.

Thanks for proving my point. Dull grey and HUMORLESS!

[Asher]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
yes. ( unless you have something in mind by "*IS*" )

From your post it seems you equate socialism to communism?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Asher

Imagine Israel as a communist country.

It wouldn't have the business it has now, it'd be low on cash and people more upset, PLUS it'd be in a warzone.

Yeah, I guess communists could screw anything up...

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
Free press, not controlled by either government or private property, but another branch of the government , like the court system

So your "free press" thats "not controlled by the government" is "another branch of the government"?

[BlackStone]

Hes been sniffing his shorts again

[Stefu]

Wheres the humor in communism? Everyone has to be the same and all wear dull and dreary clothes with frowns on their faces.

Well, Russians certainly made up a lot of jokes about it.

Ivan dies and goes to hell. The devil shows him the places a bit and then asks whether he wants to go to communist hell or capitalist hell. Ivan asks what do the hells hold. Devil says that both involve people being roasted on a gigantic furnace. Ivan chooses, without question, communist hell. Devil asks for a reason, and Ivan says "Well, you know how it works in communist hell. One day, there isn't enough coal, next day, there's enough coal but furnace isn't working, and another day, there's enough coal and furnace is working but the heater's passed out drunk..."

What is the Soviet definition of an automobile?
"Automobile is a transportation vehicle which people use through their elected representatives."

[Az]

no , socialism from what I've seen in socialist countries ( like Israel was ) is a mix of government and private property.

and Israel, while being socialist enjoyed immense growth for around 20 years. being around 10% almost yearly. then , the system started to decay, due to the strengthening of the private owners that became very powerful, and started bribing the well paid government officials that run parts of the system. Also the occupation of the west bank has poured cheap labour from the underdeveloped regions of Jordan , that were occupied by Israel , creating a degradation of the agricultural societies , that relied on Israeli labor prior to that, and the construction companies that hired them , as well. Money , in the form of wages to Palestinians has begun to pour out , and though most of it returned to the Israeli economy it still hit the citizens of Israel.

[Asher]

Socialism doesn't have to be a mix of government and private property.

You're taking communism and taking out most of the communist parts of it to get a really left wing form of socialism...

[BlackStone]

Originally posted by Stefu


Well, Russians certainly made up a lot of jokes about it.

Ivan dies and goes to hell. The devil shows him the places a bit and then asks whether he wants to go to communist hell or capitalist hell. Ivan asks what do the hells hold. Devil says that both involve people being roasted on a gigantic furnace. Ivan chooses, without question, communist hell. Devil asks for a reason, and Ivan says "Well, you know how it works in communist hell. One day, there isn't enough coal, next day, there's enough coal but furnace isn't working, and another day, there's enough coal and furnace is working but the heater's passed out drunk..."

What is the Soviet definition of an automobile?
"Automobile is a transportation vehicle which people use through their elected representatives."

[Az]

Caligastia: you're not paying attention. would you consider courts in democratic countries independant, therefor not controlled by the government ? so why can't the same be done with media?

Stefu:

the inefficiency joke is correct, many innefficiencies existed on the micromanagement level. The car joke is ... funny. My father had a car. most of my father's friends had cars. they were all of different proffessions. Sure , the cars weren't as good as the west's cars. But if the SU would put some more work in them , and not , say , the latest BMP, maybe they would be better too. I always said that one of the main flaws of the SU was sending it's best minds , organizers, scientists and engineers, into the military development .

[Az]

Asher : I've read the works of Marx , and Trotsky. if they're not communist , who is ? ( I am not considering myself a marxist, but Trotsky , and his ideas of the improvement of the SU , when in exile , appeal to me greatly )

[Asher]

I'm so confused on how you think your description is communism.

Oh well, feel free to advocate communism. Don't be surprised once you get communism that it's nothing like your description.

[Az]

what do you think is communism?

[Asher]

Well, for one, Communism doesn't permit for "choices in your personal life". For example, what if I wanted to go get another job? Is that permitted under true communism?

You also talk about voicing dissent and the free press. What other communsim actually permitted this?

And finally, you talk about BONUSES. For christ sake, you're going to give BONUSES to reward performance in COMMUNISM?

[Az]

yes , yes , yes.

communism is a socio-economical system for the equal distribution of wealth, not a blueprint to build a human hive. ( some SMACers might disagree.)