Fair is Fair, a question for Europe

[rah]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
The U.K. should be taking the lead.
Of course, that will lead to the same type criticism that the U.S. endures. They'll just have to get used to it.

I really don't see the relevance of this, the UK is already getting criticism for not participating and being perceived as a US toady.
I don't see how additional criticism would change anything.

Yes, the Berlin,Paris,London triangle of opinions will make further integration a painful and slow process. Just think how long it took for the North and South in the US to really get back together after the Civil War. (some claim that it hasn't happened yet)

RAH

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hmmm, a proportional representation of population in the UN is a very interesting idea. However, I fear the smaller states (who in total have much more population than Europe and US combined, btw) would never go for it. We would have to try to get it done, and then maybe we in the US could have an election (for UN reps) where voter turnout is even worse than it is for Congress .

[Roland]

It is a slow process with surprising results. But don't forget a couple things:

- the only power missing for a federal system is foreign and defense policy
- barely noticed, we now have an institutionalised Council of the defense ministers, so the drifting towards the Union and even supranationality has started
- in 1954 we almost got a common army for the original 6 EC members

[MikeH]

European election turnout was around 25 - 35 % in the UK in '99. That's incredibly poor.

[Arrian]

I think there's something the "proportional representation" people are forgetting: the fact that India and China would have 1/3 of the votes between them.

-Arrian

[MikeH]

What's wrong with that? You think their people are worth less than other people?

[Roland]

It's a moot point. That would be interesting if the GA got some powers.

[MikeH]

Well that's my main problem with the EU at the moment. It doesn't seem to be very democratic... I'd rather have a decent European GA with real powers.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I tell you though, that UN GA hall would have to be super-expanded! I wonder what the cap on ministers should be? 500, with every state at least having one?

[Roland]

You need to read up on the EP powers....

[Arrian]

Originally posted by MikeH
What's wrong with that? You think their people are worth less than other people?

Nope, didn't say that (although, in the case of China, all those people don't have a say in their government). I brought it up because the posts I saw discussing proportional representation were all about USA, Europe, and the small third world countries. No mention of the big dogs. That is all.

-Arrian

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Roland
You need to read up on the EP powers....

I am much too lazy for that. I'll just make generalisations based on my assumptions if that's OK?

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Arrian


Nope, didn't say that (although, in the case of China, all those people don't have a say in their government). I brought it up because the posts I saw discussing proportional representation were all about USA, Europe, and the small third world countries. No mention of the big dogs. That is all.

-Arrian

Yep that's a good point about China.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, one of the problems would be who assigns the ministers. If you have an autocratic state... the government will do it. And if the Secretary General is elected from the GA, you won't see many SecGen's that are not Chinese or Indian .

[MikeH]

OK... EU Parliment powers:

Approve/not approve Council of Ministers Legislation
Approve/not approve EU budgets
Supervise legislative process.

So they can't actually do anything, just stop the Council of Ministers from doing stuff? Or have I got that wrong?