Are homosexuals near extinction?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ignorance
If homosexuality really is in genes, it should be gone in few generations anyway.
The social pressure has been mostly lifted, leaving gay people very unlikely to spread their genes to any descendants.

Unless of course someone decides it would be neat to allow gay-couples to artificially reproduce, at which point we can say goodbye to natural selection.

You picked out the perfect Apolyton member name for yourself.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Ignorance
If homosexuality really is in genes, it should be gone in few generations anyway.
The social pressure has been mostly lifted, leaving gay people very unlikely to spread their genes to any descendants.

Unless of course someone decides it would be neat to allow gay-couples to artificially reproduce, at which point we can say goodbye to natural selection.

Sorry, if the trait is recessive or even dominant with reduced penetrance it doesn't work that way. If the trait is recessive then those carrying one gene will continue to pass the gene on to the next generation. Likewise if the gene has relatively low pentrance ( no pun intended ) those in whom the gene is not expressed will pass it on.

[Caligastia]

It might not be hereditary, it could be caused by something that happens during pregnancy.

In any case, its clear that its not a choice.

[MrFun]

It's fascinating though --- with all the advances in science, we yet, do not know how we become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.

Or, as I and others have stated in the past, maybe we're all fundamentally bisexual with a predominance of heterosexuality or homosexuality????

[Ignorance]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Sorry, if the trait is recessive or even dominant with reduced penetrance it doesn't work that way. If the trait is recessive then those carrying one gene will continue to pass the gene on to the next generation. Likewise if the gene has relatively low pentrance ( no pun intended ) those in whom the gene is not expressed will pass it on.

Well, it could be dominant. And if nobody carrying it would breed, it would theoretically disappear in just one generation.

Anyway, I don't think its in genes.

[Firelad]

Well, in fact, MrFun, there's considerable evindence to that effect. In fact, I'm just in the process of re-reading Our Kind by Marvin Harris, and he says just that, referring the reader to 64% of the world's cultures and to the closest ape to ourselves, the Pygmy Chimp, who is bisexual and has sex with all the other Pygmy Chimps all day, be they male or female.

[faded glory]

Lol ignorance. I have to think that is a DL

[TCO]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Sorry, if the trait is recessive or even dominant with reduced penetrance it doesn't work that way. If the trait is recessive then those carrying one gene will continue to pass the gene on to the next generation. Likewise if the gene has relatively low pentrance ( no pun intended ) those in whom the gene is not expressed will pass it on.

I know that this issue is "loaded" politically, but what does the scientific literature say about causes of homosexuality? Surely there has been some work on this topic. At one time, it was a condition in the DSM, no?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by GP


I know that this issue is "loaded" politically, but what does the scientific literature say about causes of homosexuality? Surely there has been some work on this topic. At one time, it was a condition in the DSM, no?

Ithought it was a condition of the PNS........







think about it.....

[blackice]

I know that this issue is "loaded" politically, but what does the scientific literature say about causes of homosexuality? Surely there has been some work on this topic. At one time, it was a condition in the DSM, no?

Actually yes start here:

http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/grd/resguides/gay.html

[TCO]

Ice, I looked in there. Couldn't find much scientific stuff. Was mostly the Gay Experience.

[blackice]

Legal, Social, And Behavioral Sciences
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bayer, Ronald. Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis. New York: Basic Books, 1981. JLD 81-1600 and MSS DIV\IGIC\NONF\B24. A narrative of the events leading to the American Psychiatric Association's decision to remove "homosexuality" from its mental diseases list.
Bell, Alan P. Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978. JLE 79-286. The result of a survey of the San Francisco Bay Area begun in the 1960's by the Institute for Sex Research, this study remains important and especially relevant since the advent of AIDS.

Berger, Raymond M. Gay and Gray: the Older Homosexual Man. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1982. JLE 82-1370 and MSS DIV\IGIC\NONF\B42. A valuable psycho-sociological examination of aging based upon questionnaires of 112 gay men. Contains lengthy profiles of six interview respondents. A pre-AIDS study.

Beyond Tolerance: Gays, Lesbians, and Bisexuals on Campus, edited by Nancy J. Evans and Vernon A. Wall. Alexandria, VA: American College Personnel Association, 1991. JFE 92-9996. Gay, lesbian, and bisexual issues on campus. The last chapter serves as a resource guide to books, films, periodicals, and organizations.

Califia, Pat. Sapphistry: The Book of Lesbian Sexuality. Tallahassee, FL: Naiad Press, 1988. (S) JLD 90-501. Includes a resource list, an index, and information on lesbians and AIDS.

Camp Grounds: Style and Homosexuality, edited by David Bergman. Amherst: University of Massachusetts Press, 1993. JFE 94-1287. Essays on various aspects of "camp."

Cavin, Susan. Lesbian Origins. San Francisco: Ism Press, 1985. JFD 90-10828. A lesbian challenge to the heterosexism inherent in the social sciences. Glossary, notes, statistical tables, and bibliography.

Comstock, Gary D. Violence Against Lesbians and Gay Men. New York: Columbia University Press, 1991. JBE 91-1453. Contains copious notes and a selected bibliography.

Counseling Gay Men and Lesbians: Journey to the End of the Rainbow, edited by Sari H. Dworkin and Fernando J. Gutierrez. Alexandria, VA: American Association for Counseling and Development, 1992. JFE 92-10311.

Fairchild, Betty. Now That You Know: What Every Parent Should Know About Homosexuality. Updated ed. San Diego: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1989. JFD 92-12292. This edition includes a discussion on AIDS and the family.

Forms of Desire: Sexual Orientation and the Social Constructionist Controversy, edited by Edward Stein. New York: Garland, 1990. JLD 90-2318. Essays which go beyond the basic debate concerning essentialism versus social constructionism.

Gay Culture in America: Essays from the Field, edited by Gilbert Herdt. Boston: Beacon Press, 1992. JFE 92-2867. This collection of socio-anthropological essays neatly complements the pre-AIDS work edited by Martin Levine: Gay Men: the Sociology of Male Homosexuality (JLD 84-72).

Grey, Antony. Quest for Justice: Towards Homosexual Emancipation. London: Sinclair-Stevenson, 1992. JFE 92-9161. Homosexual law reform in Great Britain in the 1950's and 1960's. Good index, appendices, and bibliography.

Gross, Larry P. Contested Closets: the Politics and Ethics of Outing. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 1993. JFE 93-13329. Includes a selection of full-text newspaper and periodical articles on outing.

Hanscombe, Gillian E. Rocking the Cradle: Lesbian Mothers: A Challenge in Family Living. Boston: Alyson Publications, 1982. JLD 84-194.

Hunter, Nan D. The Rights of Lesbians and Gay Men: the Basic ACLU Guide to a Gay Person's Rights. Carbondale, IL: Southern Illinois Press, 1992. JFC 92-3158.

Kitzinger, Celia. The Social Construction of Lesbianism. London and Newbury Park, CA: Sage Publications, 1987. JFD 91-4145. New ways of looking at the study of lesbianism within the social sciences.

Lambda Gray: A Practical, Emotional, and Spiritual Guide for Gays and Lesbians Who Are Growing Older, edited by Jeanne Adleman. North Hollywood, CA: Newcastle Pub., 1993. JFD 93-14721. Aging and self-actualization as seen through the eyes of lesbians and gay men. Includes a useful chapter on resources. No index.

Lesbian Psychologies: Explorations and Challenges. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1987. JLE 87-3062. Essays by several authors on lesbian identity, relationships, family, therapies, and community.

Lewes, Kenneth. The Psychoanalytic Theory of Male Homosexuality. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1988. JFE 92-3930. The theory historically examined from Freud to the early 1980's.

Long Time Passing: Lives of Older Lesbians, edited by Marcy Adelman. Boston: Alyson Publications, 1986. JLD 87-3331. Personal accounts by aging lesbians; lists resources for health and legal assistance.

McDonald, Helen B. Homosexuality: a Practical Guide to Counseling Lesbians, Gay Men, and Their Families. New York: Continuum, 1990. JFD 90-10907. Also discusses strategies for aiding special needs groups within the lesbian and gay communities.

Mohr, Richard D. Gays/Justice: a Study of Ethics, Society, and Law. New York: Columbia University Press, 1988. JFE 91-7489.

Out of the Closets: Voices of Gay Liberation, edited by Karla Jay and Allen Young. 2nd ed. New York: New York University Press, 1992. JFD 92-15910. A reprint (with added foreword by John D'Emilio) of the classic gay liberation collection first published in 1972.

"Queer Theory: Lesbian and Gay Sexualities," edited by Teresa de Lauretis, published as the summer, 1991, issue of Differences: A Journal of Feminist Cultural Studies. JFL 91-290.

Ritualized Homosexuality in Melanesia, edited by Gilbert Herdt. Berkeley: University of California Press, 1984. JFE 84-3901. Distinguished anthropologists contribute essays covering aspects of this practice among a wide cross-section of Melanesian cultures. Extensive bibliography and index.

Samar, Vincent J. The Right to Privacy: Gays, Lesbians, and the Constitution. Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 1991. JFD 91-8758.

Signorile, Michelangelo. Queer in America: Sex, the Media, and the Closets of Power. New York: Random House, 1993. JFE 93- 6819.

Tatchell, Peter. Europe in the Pink: Lesbian and Gay Equality in the New Europe. London: GMP, 1992. JFD 92-9217. A major revision and expansion of the author's Out in Europe. Contains status reports on individual countries, including those in Eastern Europe. Current through 1991.

Whitam, Frederick L. Male Homosexuality in Four Societies: Brazil, Guatemala, the Philippines, and the United States. New York: Praeger, 1986. JLE 86-1825. A cross-cultural study which attempts to exhibit common elements in the development of a homosexual personality regardless of the cultural context. An insightful work although cross-gender patterns seem overemphasized. Bibliography and index.

Williams, Walter. The Spirit and the Flesh: Sexual Diversity in American Indian Culture. Boston: Beacon Press, 1992. HBC 92-17606. An exploration of the character and tradition of the berdache.

Woods, James D. The Corporate Closet: The Professional Lives of Gay Men in America. New York: Free Press, 1993. JBE 94-412.

[Boris Godunov]

If you want, I can direct you to plenty of Web sites that focus on lots of gay experiences. With video and sound, too.

[blackice]

http://www.mind.org.uk/information/factsheets/L/Lesbian/Lesbians__gay_men__bisexuals_and_Mental_Health.asp

[blackice]

http://www.academicarmageddon.co.uk/library/kirk.htm

That's fun