Which is more important to the US?

[Bereta_Eder]

Mind you, I'm not sure. I said AFAIK. There was propably heavy state interference in the economy (but it definitely remained capitalistic - in the broad sense)

[David Floyd]

Just so we're yet again clear, the US government does not and really never has supported true capitalism, with the exception of a few individuals.

I'll refrain from calling the Soviet Union communist if you don't say capitalism when you mean something else

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm American, and I say capitalism. Democracy without economic freedom, really isn't truly freedom.

[Wraith]

A couple points.

First, and this gets mentioned all the time, but never seems to stick, but the US is not a democracy. It's a democratic republic. There's an important difference in there. The people who founded the nation did not want democracy, so I really can't say that it's at all important to the country.

Secondly...

--"many americans seem to believe that capitalism equals freedom."

Laissez-faire capitalism is the only economic system compatible with individual freedom. The rest fail by their own definitions.

Wraith
Keeping freedom safe from democracy

[Akka]

Originally posted by Wraith
Laissez-faire capitalism is the only economic system compatible with individual freedom. The rest fail by their own definitions.

I don't want to be offensive, but this is utterly stupid.
It's exactly like saying "anarchy is the only political system compatible with individual freedom".

[David Floyd]

Actually, laissez faire is the only system compatible with individual freedom because all the others limit freedom in some way.

[Akka]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Actually, laissez faire is the only system compatible with individual freedom because all the others limit freedom in some way.

Yes, anti-murder law limit my freedom to kill too. So anarchy is the only system that does not limit my freedom.



Time to grow up, pals, "freedom" is not "doing everything you want". It's a little more complicated and less childish than that.

[Saint Marcus]

Actually, laissez faire is the only system compatible with individual freedom because all the others limit freedom in some way.

same with anarachy in politics (as akka said)

[Bereta_Eder]

economic freedom is not personal freedom.

in a laissez faire economy the worker might end up with 1 dollar salary because that is what 100% free markets could dictate at that period.

a man with a 1 dollar salary is not free.

socialist economy and state intervention guarantess minum wage and thus guarantess personal freedom.

so laissez faire economy equals slavery to whatever the big capital dictates.

[David Floyd]

Yes, anti-murder law limit my freedom to kill too. So anarchy is the only system that does not limit my freedom.

Being able to murder someone is not an exercise of individual rights - rights do not extend to violating the natural rights of another.

[David Floyd]

a man with a 1 dollar salary is not free.

Of course he is, if he voluntarily agreed to work for that amount.

[TCO]

democracy. But given that, we will still choose capitalism over socialism.

[Bereta_Eder]

he wouldn't have a choice.

[David Floyd]

democracy. But given that, we will still choose capitalism over socialism.

You mean a mixed economy, ie the current form of "capitalism", right?

[David Floyd]

he wouldn't have a choice.

Ah, but in a true laissez faire system there he would - no one forces him to take that particular job.