Desecration of the Church of Nativity

[monkspider]

It is unfortunate that this happened. On a good note, the church emerged with little permanent damage at least.

[morb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Desecration of the Church of Nativity

Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny



It never ceases to amaze me how posters on this forum consistently fail to demonstrate any inclination to look behind the bare reporting and try to establish what's really going on. A small market town could be powered by the jerking knees on both sides of the argument over the ME issue.

Now watch and be dazzled, because I'm going to attempt to reconstruct the events as dispassionately as I can. To start....what has been established?

1- Fleeing Palestinian gunmen take refuge in Church of nativity.
2- Israeli troops lay siege to the Church.
3- Tense stand-off. A few of the Palestinians (and two civilians) are shot by Israeli snipers during the 39 day siege.
4- Siege ends. Israeli reports state discovery of 40 explosive devices "some of them booby-trapped". The location of the devices was provided by the Christian Priests (source- BBC). The Israeli sources are being coy over the nature of the devices, though I'd assume they're probably not discarded party poppers. The fact that a distinction is drawn between bobby-traps and other devices leads me to suspect that there were a small number of crude booby-traps, plus other items (possibly grenades) that were merely discarded.

First question- why were the bombs planted?

I don't know about anyone else, but I was convinced that the Church would be stormed by the Israelis in view of the baying about the "most wanted" list. Had I been one of the Palestinians, I'd have been convinced that I didn't have long to live. Under those circumstances, would I have made booby-traps? You bet your arse. This is not a game of nicey-touchy-huggy-huggy. It's a war zone. I'd have set booby-traps in an attempt to buy time, if nothing else. Seeing as I'd only brought in very limited supplies, the devices would probably have been small and crude (possibly cobbled together from bullets) but they'd have been enough to make the Israelis wary (and probably missing a hand or two).

Second question- how did the Priests know about them?

The first possiblity- heroic Christian Priests risk life and limb to spy on evil, baby-eating Pal scum, and heroically save gallant, lantern-jawed Israeli soldiers just in the nick of time. I call this "The Jerry Bruckheimer version" and will be appearing in cinemas soon.

The second possibilty- The bombs never existed and were an invention by the evil, Zionist oppressor scum, proved by the fact that the Israelis are refusing to elaborate. I call this "The detached from reality conspiracy theory version" and it will be appearing at DarkConspiracy.com very soon.

The third possibility.- The Palestinians are sharing the church with the Christian Priests. Blowing them up, along with one of the most sacred sites to Muslims, would be a catastrophic PR disaster for them. Even if you don't buy that angle, bear in mind that these guys already have a lot on their plates and probably have no wish to have bombs going off while they are there, risking their lives and be left washing bits of Priest's guts out of their hair. So they tell the Priests "OK- you're safe around most of the church, but don't go near those two cupboards over there or you'll be blown to buggery. If you want anything from them, ask and we'll get them for you.". At the end of the siege, the Pals get a partial PR victory, and the Priests can safely tell the soldiers where to find the bombs.
I call this version "The one I think really happened."

This is not Hollywood. There are no white hats and black hats so that Billy-Bob from Badgerpoke, Idaho knows who to cheer for without being troubled to give the matter any thought. I'm doing my best to view these events from an unbiased point of view, and I wish others would try do do likewise, rather than performing like one of Pavlov's pooches.

So, all told, the "desecration" amounts to a few broken windows, cigarette butts and a lingering smell of wee. Given the circumstances, I think that's nothing short of miraculous. Don't you?

hmm, so you're saying that you're fine with the fact that the church was used as a "refuge" for fleeing palastinians in the first place? yeah, i guess in that case your rationalization is just dandy.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Where is che? I'd like to get his opinion on the behavior of the peaceniks who rushed the church.

I avoid most ME threads these days. My opinion is that they were idiots. F*cking Americans always gotta be the center of attention. D'uh, this wasn't about them. Once they delivered their food and medicine, and checked out the scene inside the church, they should have left, so they wouldn't use up any food. Twits.

[chequita guevara]

It's just a church, a building, a thing. It may be a thing held in great reverence, but is not more valuable than a single human life. Most of the gunmen, and some of the civilians would likely be dead now if they hadn't fled into the church. Some good came of it.

BTW, it's not necessarily the birth place of Christ. No one knows where that really was. Some tourism guys just decided it would be a good place to set up a church to get money from pilgrims.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It's just a church, a building, a thing. It may be a thing held in great reverence, but is not more valuable than a single human life.

You'll have to forgive me, che. When I made the comment I was feeling particularly trolly.

However, I highly doubt that the IDF was going to rush the Church. The attack, if any were to occur, would have come way before the human shields rushed the Church to put a strain on the rations of the people within. The people inside had had too much time to prepare defenses.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Desecration of the Church of Nativity

Originally posted by morb


hmm, so you're saying that you're fine with the fact that the church was used as a "refuge" for fleeing palastinians in the first place? yeah, i guess in that case your rationalization is just dandy.

Had I been in their position, I'd have done exactly the same. I like my skin as it is, and feel bullet-holes would not make me prettier. There was no better refuge available.

[Dr Strangelove]

Were there any tourists in the place at the time it was seized? What happened to them? Were they released by the Palestinians or forced to stay. While priests might desire to stay with their beloved shrine, I'd find it difficult to believe that tourists would agree to stay if given the option to leave.

Don't forget about the Stockholm Syndrome.