Mysteries of the Bible

[Adalbertus]

Would you care to show where this can be seen outside the Bible?

The death of Jesus is portrayed in the bible as testifiable by historic persons.

That's what I wanted to say. Happy now? The oldest definite account on the person Jesus which is not Christian is afaik Josephus Flavus who lived about 100 years later. And I wouldn't wonder if the prosecutions of Christians by Nero were aimed to the Jews, and the Christians being regarded as a strange Jewish sect.

The other gospels didn't claim the Roman centurio as witness but they report his presence.

If he didn't actually die there was no resurrection. People have been known to apear quite dead without actually being so.

Do you have a point here?

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Adalbertus

The death of Jesus is portrayed in the bible as testifiable by historic persons.

No true. Its in the Bible but it is not testified by anyone historic except in the Bible. There is no source outside the Bible.

That's what I wanted to say. Happy now?

You are welcome to say what you want. It just isn't verifiable.

The oldest definite account on the person Jesus which is not Christian is afaik Josephus Flavus who lived about 100 years later.

Not quite correct. He was born a few years after the crucifiction is believed to have occured and he was a witness to the razing of Jerusalem so it wasn't that long a time. He didn't say anything about the crucifiction. He reffered to "James the brother of Jesus" and thats it for direct references to Jesus. He had access to Roman records so he could be a good source. He said a things about christians but just the one sentence about Jesus.

And I wouldn't wonder if the prosecutions of Christians by Nero were aimed to the Jews, and the Christians being regarded as a strange Jewish sect.

The other gospels didn't claim the Roman centurio as witness but they report his presence.

As I said there had to Romans there. A centurian seems likely as they were the equivalent to a sargeant. Its not the same as an outside source. If the centurian had written it down and sent a letter that was found or referenced then there would be outside evidence.

The centurian was not an historic person in anycase. There is no record of him except that mention in John. Without outside corroboration there is no reason to assume the Bible is an accurate representation of history. It may be such but it cannot be confirmed.

Do you have a point here?

Yes and I made it. I guess you missed it.

There is no outside evidence that Jesus died on the cross.

There is only one single oustide mention of him at all and its not comtemporary. So we don't know that he died on the cross. As I said I don't think he did as dead people generaly don't get up and walk. However comatose people can appear dead and get up and walk. There is no reason to think that a miracle was involved.

[Adalbertus]

No true. Its in the Bible but it is not testified by anyone historic except in the Bible. There is no source outside the Bible.

I didn't say anything about an outside source available to us. I said that the bible said that there are non-Christian people you can ask about the death of Jesus, but not about his resurrection.
Now for the third time.

However comatose people can appear dead and get up and walk.

That was probably why the bible mentioned two women who didn't know how to take away the stone which was closing the tomb. And I'd doubt that Jesus after suffering a crucification and two days without food would be stronger than two women. I don't know how many other people at that time would dare to open a tomb of someone who is dead if he suddenly appears to be quite alive.

Try reading Buddhism.

Is there such a thing as the Book of Buddhism? I never heard of any and to my knowledge Buddha wrote as much as Jesus, Laotse or Socrates, i. e. nothing. Is there any other good introductory reading?

[Boris Godunov]

re: Buddhism:

Try http://www.beliefnet.com/index.html

Excellent resource, with info on many faiths. Of course, any claim on anyone's part about a particular belief being better or worse is nothing more than opinion.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Try reading Buddhism. Far superior than Christian doctrine in promoting psychic well-being and mental health. When you remove the guilt-inducing bogies of Heaven and Hell, you'd be amazed at how the mind can focus on what is real.

Nah, I don't need to mess with Buddhism.

I believe that Jesus Christ's "miracles" were results of chakra healing techniques for some of his more remarkable healings of some of the people he met.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MrFun

I believe that Jesus Christ's "miracles" were results of chakra healing techniques for some of his more remarkable healings of some of the people he met.

I just think they were made up by people writing decades after Jesus had died.

[MrFun]

I don't think they made up these stories just out of whim or late-night imagination attacks.

They might have seen people who were indeed, healed by Jesus Christ. And if they had no knowledge of chakra techniques in this period of history, to many people, it would look like miracles.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MrFun
I don't think they made up these stories just out of whim or late-night imagination attacks.

I think they made them up to justify the belief Jesus was divine. Certainly the feeding of the 5000 (or however many) is such a case.

[MrFun]

Some of it is based on pure myth, others are based on what people observed themselves, but did not understand HOW whatever Jesus Christ did, happened --- but they saw it happen.

[Drake Tungsten]

Is there such a thing as the Book of Buddhism? I never heard of any and to my knowledge Buddha wrote as much as Jesus, Laotse or Socrates, i. e. nothing. Is there any other good introductory reading?

There are books of Buddhist scripture. The Tipitaka and the Dhammapada are two that I remember off the top of my head (don't quote me on the spelling though). They are collections of the Buddha's sayings, put down by his followers at a later date. Kinda like the New Testament, in that sense.

[Adalbertus]

Boris, Drake, thanks for the suggestions, I'll try them.

[Wernazuma III]

A naive question from a sceptic: On which language do those bible codes apply? The english bible , the vulgata or greek? Do the codes apply to both testaments? If yes, does it work in Hebrew for the OT and greek or aramean for the NT at the same time? Do they give answers in english?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
On which language do those bible codes apply? The english bible , the vulgata or greek? Do the codes apply to both testaments? If yes, does it work in Hebrew for the OT and greek or aramean for the NT at the same time? Do they give answers in english?

To the best of my knowlege, the Bible Codes are a fraud.

[Triped]

I hope you're all 100% certain that what the Bible says isn't true, because if you're wrong, it'll really suck.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Triped
I hope you're all 100% certain that what the Bible says isn't true, because if you're wrong, it'll really suck.

I believe that it is true. I just prefer Biblical Criticism to Biblical Literalism when interpreting passages whenever possible.