Mysteries of the Bible

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by MrFun
The mysteries originate from every different sect of believers who interpret the Bible differently.

I do not have a laundry list of those specific mysteries at the moment.

The sad thing is that Jesus Christ never wrote his own ideas and teachings. If we knew what Jesus Christ himself REALLY preached, we might find many parts of the Bible that is just plain wrong.

Jesus Christ's own words would be closer to the truth, but unfortunately, we have to rely on the apostles' interpretations and biases.

the Bible being God's word is one of the most important things

how do you have anything else without it

so whatever is in it is such that it leads us to God

Jon Miller

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Adalbertus
There is a problem on how to read the thing. In ancient times, every serious book had a story aroud it (also philosophical work of Plato, or even Galilei).

Galileo isn't that ancient.

[Adalbertus]

Galileo isn't that ancient.

No he wasn't But he kept to an old tradition. And hopefully nobody would claim that the background story is a contribution to science because the rest is, or that his scientific part is nonsense only because the background story is fiction.

Most of their bias probably came from what they selected out of Jesus Christ's teachings, but the rest of it probably came how they reinterpreted his teachings long after he died.

And we will reinterpret what is written, and you and I probably different. This is always the case with communication among humans. It depends not only on the speaker but also on the listener. Why should communication with God be different?

The situation is less bad than with the philosophy of Socrates who we know only through Plato. And in the dialogues, Socrates was used by Plato to promote his own - Plato's - philosophy.

I guess, Jesus had some reason for not writing, because according to the Bible he was literate.

[Zevico]

The following post may offend some people. It could be defined as a troll, but anyway, you've been warned. And tell me if any facts mentioned are historically inaccurate (ie. were not around during jesus's time). Apologies if they are.

To be the Messiah, one must be 2 things:
1. Jewish. Sort of covered here by Jesus.
2. Of the same tribe as King David (and descending from him).
This is where Jesus is 'knocked out'. If God is his father, then he cannot be of any tribe-as tribe is passed down via the father.

[Adalbertus]

Zevico, It's interesting that there are two different genealogies which relate Jesus to David, Matthew1,2-16, and Luke 3,23-31. They even don't agree on Josephs father. In Mark, 12,35-36, Jesus explains that the Messiah cannot be the son of David.

I don't have a problem with that, because what's important for me is that Jesus has shown the way to live.

(For me the Bible is a great book, but only if you don't try to look at it word-by-word.)

[Urban Ranger]

You have to read the bible literally, unless there is internal indication you should read it otherwise.

A lot of people interpret the bible creatively, but that's cheating.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You have to read the bible literally, unless there is internal indication you should read it otherwise.

A lot of people interpret the bible creatively, but that's cheating.

I disagree with you on this.

You cannot read and interpret the Bible literally.

The reason??
If we interpret the Bible literally, then that means we have to apply the morals and rules of an ancient tome to our society today.
Some of those morals and rules would no longer fit in our contemporary society, with our advance and progress in psychological and sociological understanding that never existed in ancient society.

A true, dynamic document or book of significant importance means that it has some flexibility with the dynamics of humanity as it progresses and reverts back and forth over the span of history.

[Adalbertus]

You have to read the bible literally, unless there is internal indication you should read it otherwise.

A lot of people interpret the bible creatively, but that's cheating.

No. When you want to read the bible literally, you have only three choices

1) to read selectively and simply ignoring what you don't want to read
2) to be extremely stupid not to notice inconsistencies (one of which I posted), or
3) to throw the bible away as a total crap (which is one of the favourite reasons why missionary atheists like to read the bible literally). But this way, you'll miss a lot of important bits of wisdom.

As in any communication there is a lot of work to do in trying to understand the intent of the speaker, which is not made much easier by the fact that the speaker spake 2000 or 2500 years ago.

Anyway, God has given me my brain, and I doubt He would have done so only that I don't use it.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Adalbertus

3) to throw the bible away as a total crap (which is one of the favourite reasons why missionary atheists like to read the bible literally). But this way, you'll miss a lot of important bits of wisdom.

Large numbers of christians take the Bible literally. Around 25% in the US anyway. That is why lots of non-believers take it that way. Besides if its not perfect what makes it special in comparison to any other relgious writings?

[Hueij]

The Bible is either the word of God or it isn't. If you think it is you have to take it literally, if you think it isn't you just pick out the wisdom stuff (after all, Western civilization is, or should be, ingrained with it) and choose a religion (or no religion) of your choice...

And with this bit of wisdom I pray you all goodnight...

[Adalbertus]

The Bible is either the word of God or it isn't. If you think it is you have to take it literally, if you think it isn't you just pick out the wisdom stuff (after all, Western civilization is, or should be, ingrained with it) and choose a religion (or no religion) of your choice...

Even if the Bible were the direct word of God you' be wrong. As I already said, for communication you need two sides. And even if the side of God didn't change, ours definitely did. You cannot tell a humanity which hasn't reached the appropriate leven anything about quantum electrodynamics. If God did do so and someone had written it, the best thing that could have happened was to simply ignore it. But probably it would have resulted in killing the (human) writer. But more importantly, any human can only write the things about or said by God he(she) is able to understand.

Besides if its not perfect what makes it special in comparison to any other relgious writings?

The big difference is that Christians don't need to be perfect. That's why Jesus has died. We only have to be as good as we can, not more. Unfortunately, there are too many Christians who don't understand this - The main reason of many quirks in the Catholic Church during the last >1000 years.

[Ethelred]

As I already said, for communication you need two sides. And even if the side of God didn't change, ours definitely did. You cannot tell a humanity which hasn't reached the appropriate leven anything about quantum electrodynamics.

So you are saying the Bible is obsolete. Isn't about time that Jehovah did a second edition?

The big difference is that Christians don't need to be perfect. That's why Jesus has died.

Christians were not involved in my question. I asked about the Bible not some of the people that read it.

There is some question about whether Jesus died. In fact according to the Bible he didn't. He got up on Sunday. Thats not dead. I am not claiming fraud or anything simply pointing out that Jesus did not die in any normal sense of the word. Whether his heart stopped or not.

Now again I will ask the question you have evaded.

If the Bible is not perfect what makes it special in comparison to any other relgious writings?

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by MrFun
If we interpret the Bible literally, then that means we have to apply the morals and rules of an ancient tome to our society today.
Some of those morals and rules would no longer fit in our contemporary society, with our advance and progress in psychological and sociological understanding that never existed in ancient society.

What the hell is the point of the Bible if you don't follow the moral code set forth within it? If you ignore the moral prescriptions in the Bible, it turns into a long, boring history book. You can't pick and choose which of the Bible's rules you wish to follow. That's why they're called the Ten Commandments, not the Ten Suggestions.

[Urban Ranger]

Hueij,

Your avatar looks naughty

Originally posted by MrFun
If we interpret the Bible literally, then that means we have to apply the morals and rules of an ancient tome to our society today.
Some of those morals and rules would no longer fit in our contemporary society, with our advance and progress in psychological and sociological understanding that never existed in ancient society.

That just means you are applying what you think the morals should be, not what is said in the bible.

Originally posted by MrFun
A true, dynamic document or book of significant importance means that it has some flexibility with the dynamics of humanity as it progresses and reverts back and forth over the span of history.

The only significant importance is the bible is partly a historical document. That is limited to the OT though. There's no special significance in the NT. Not to us nonbelievers.

[Ethelred]

Well there is finally confirmation that Pontius Pilate existed. A plaque on a building that was built at the time has his name on it as the governor. A number of other people have historical confirmation but Pilate had eluded that untill the mid 90's.

This however is not the same as confirmation that Lazurus was raised from the dead or does it show evidence for any other miracle.