Am I a anti-semitist?

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
But how is it antisemitic to say the conflict was fed by the Jews? That's just a plain generalization.

Because they are Israelis. There are twice as many Jews in the US as in Israel. The vast majority of the Jews didn't cause this problem.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Eli
I classify people who deny the Jewish right for an independent state in their homeland as anti semites.

I guess that makes me an anti-semite then. Israel is there now and the world has to deal with it but it should never have been created. Its like saying the Gypsie should be able to take over Pakitstan from the Pakastanis because lived in India hundreds or thousands of years ago.

[Ned]

Ethelred, Do you really know anything about the origins of Israel? To say that Israel should never have been created is tantamount to saying that the Jews should have accepted their slaughter in 1948.

Ned

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Ned
Ethelred, Do you really know anything about the origins of Israel? To say that Israel should never have been created is tantamount to saying that the Jews should have accepted their slaughter in 1948.
Ned

Yes I do know about the origins of Israel and that statement is nonsense. They weren't being slaughtered in 1948. Not even in Palestine. The First Arab-Israeli War started after the state of Israel was founded. Did they bother to ask the Arabs living in Palestine if they wan't to live in state run by European refugees?

[KrazyHorse]

I classify people who deny the Jewish right for an independent state in their homeland as anti semites

Yeah. You can count me an anti-semite too, if you define it like this. Nice of you to lump me in with the Nazis.

[Natan]

Yes I do know about the origins of Israel and that statement is nonsense. They weren't being slaughtered in 1948. Not even in Palestine. The First Arab-Israeli War started after the state of Israel was founded. Did they bother to ask the Arabs living in Palestine if they wan't to live in state run by European refugees?

The Arabs could have accepted the partition plan which would have given them a state west of the Jordan too, or they could have tried to redraw the borders of the plan and create two states with somewhat more favorable boundaries. Instead, they merely said "it's all ours, including Tel-Aviv . . ." or as Azzam Pasha, head of the Arab League, put it to the UN "This will be a war of great killings and momentous massacres, which will be remembered like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades."

[Ethelred]

The Arabs could have accepted the partition plan which would have given them a state west of the Jordan too, or they could have tried to redraw the borders of the plan and create two states with somewhat more favorable boundaries.

Yes I suppose they could have been that stupid. It was their land. No one had any right to take it from them except might and brass and chutzpah to do that.

Instead, they merely said "it's all ours, including Tel-Aviv . . ." or as Azzam Pasha, head of the Arab League, put it to the UN "This will be a war of great killings and momentous massacres, which will be remembered like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades."

It was all theirs. Why the heck should they give the land to a bunch of Europeans? The Jewish refugees were not Israelites they weren't Paletinians they were foreigners. Purchasing some land from individuals is quite a bit different from taking the whole place and setting a up a state that was designed to keep the Arabs from having any real power in their own land.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ethelred


Yes I do know about the origins of Israel and that statement is nonsense. They weren't being slaughtered in 1948. Not even in Palestine. The First Arab-Israeli War started after the state of Israel was founded. Did they bother to ask the Arabs living in Palestine if they wan't to live in state run by European refugees?

E, The fighting began in 1947 and continued uninterrupted thereafter. When the English withdrew in 1948, Israel declared a state. The had no alternative but to die. They litterally were given no choice but to defend themselves or be driven into the sea.

In 1917, that was not Arab land. It was Turkish land. The population was even then around 30% Jewish, IIRC. The Arabs had not governed that land for 1000 years.

When the English took the area from Turkey in 1917, they named the land Palestine after the ancient Roman province. It was not Arab land in 1917. It, repeat, had not been Arab for 1000 years.

In 1948, the English withdrew from Palestine. The Arabs neighbors of Palestine then joined the fight. They were trying to kill the Jews and take the land under their control - for the first time in 1000 years. They lost. The Jews survived. But somehow to you, E, this was a mistake. It is clear you believe that the Arabs should have won and killed all the Jews.

I can hardly believe that so many truly believe in ethinic cleansing. I thought Nazism was finished, done and buried in the ashcan of history.

Apparently not.

Ned

[Imran Siddiqui]

I can hardly believe that so many truly believe in ethinic cleansing. I thought Nazism was finished, done and buried in the ashcan of history.

Apparently not.

Yeah, people like Sharon will always believe in genocidal attacks .

[Ned]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I can hardly believe that so many truly believe in ethinic cleansing. I thought Nazism was finished, done and buried in the ashcan of history.

Apparently not.

Yeah, people like Sharon will always believe in genocidal attacks .

Imran, What makes you believe that Sharon believes in genocide? Ned

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well he didn't seem to mind letting it happen in Lebanon in 1982.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Ned
E, The fighting began in 1947 and continued uninterrupted thereafter. When the English withdrew in 1948, Israel declared a state. The had no alternative but to die. They litterally were given no choice but to defend themselves or be driven into the sea.

Fighting began before 1947. Radical Zionist terrorism definitly began before that. One of those terrorists eventually became Prime Minister of Israel.

The King David Hotel terrorist attack

http://www.thetimescrossword.co.uk/article/0,,690-5826,00.html

American-Isaeli site on Menachem Begin

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/biography/begin.html

In 1917, that was not Arab land. It was Turkish land. The population was even then around 30% Jewish, IIRC. The Arabs had not governed that land for 1000 years.

It was Turkish controlled land. Arabs were the main inhabitants. That they had not governed had nothing to do with that. If a vote had been held, in keeping with UN principles, which group would have had control?

The only reason there were a lot of Jews there is because they had moved in to create a state. That is hardly a justification for what followed. How would you like to wake up in Mexican state one day started by immigrants from Mexico? Or Canadians for that matter, I picked Mexicans because there are rather a lot of them in California and the numbers are close to what you say was the case in Palestine.

I don't dispute your numbers but they had changed cosiderably in just a few years. It was rather akin to an invasion aided and abbeted by Britain.

I find it interesting just how much stock Israel puts in that high handed document The Balfour Declaration. Britain had no right except might to say there should be a Jewish state there. It promised that ALL peoples rights would be maintained which did not fit with the idea of a Jewish state in lands there were primarily Arab. Neither Britain nor the League of Nations had any legal or moral justification in assigning that land to European Jews. Indeed such an action would directly violate the later UN orginazation basic concepts of self-determination.

When the English took the area from Turkey in 1917, they named the land Palestine after the ancient Roman province. It was not Arab land in 1917. It, repeat, had not been Arab for 1000 years.

So one oppressor took it from another. I am sure the Brits were better but you will notice they did not allow a vote on it. They promised people rights would be maintained. They did not keep that promise. It HAD been primarily Arab for 1800 years it simply did not have Arab rulers the whole time. There is a considerable difference between your statement and the full truth.

In 1948, the English withdrew from Palestine. The Arabs neighbors of Palestine then joined the fight. They were trying to kill the Jews and take the land under their control - for the first time in 1000 years. They lost. The Jews survived. But somehow to you, E, this was a mistake. It is clear you believe that the Arabs should have won and killed all the Jews.

European Jews had engaged in guerilla warfare and terrorist warfare with the British for a considerable time before that. It IS clear that you like to make things up about people you disagree with. Did you completely fail to notice that I said Israel is there NOW and the Middle East must deal with it?

But that is now. The Arab neighbors started fighting when European Jews declared Israel a state. They simply declared it. They allowed no vote since after all they were the minority.

Fighting started in 1947 because someone decide they had the right to partition land without bothering to have a vote. Are you trying to justify that high handed behaviour?

I can hardly believe that so many truly believe in ethinic cleansing. I thought Nazism was finished, done and buried in the ashcan of history.

I can hardly believe how you are inventing other people thoughts and then attacking for the thoughts you invented.

Apparently not.

Ned

Apparently you aren't being honest. Making up my position like that.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well he didn't seem to mind letting it happen in Lebanon in 1982.

There was no genocide in Lebanon. Only a small massacre. All Arabs states massacred tens of thousands of their own people, yet no one seems to care. It's when the Jews are remotely connected everyone suddenly start screaming.

[Al'Kimiya]

Some links:

http://www.israelmybeloved.com/

http://www.masada2000.org/

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

[Eli]

Warning :
The following links(except the first one, maybe) do not represent neither the opinions of the majority of the Israelis nor their intellegence.