What are the most powerful and influential countries?

[Heresson]

Strasznie przepraszam. Cos mi sie pokickalo i przypadkiem skasowalem to co tu napisalem!
W sumie to i dobrze. Za dlugie to bylo.

[Bereta_Eder]

#1. Sikander:

Points taken. Mind you though some of what I wrote were just trolls. (like the cool smilie indicated).

Originally posted by Saras
Trust me, the Greeks should be grateful for the Junta. The alternative was a completely bizarre and miserable life up until the 90's, and rebuilding afterwards.

Just look at all the central european countries.

Saras, again you display how much you know.

Then again you should be grateful to the Soviets for building up your country from village idiots to something... err... well to something else

As Le Vile said you should not speak if you don't know the facts. This was a very big insult to all the dead and tortured people of the Junta.

I'm sorry if you feel "cheated" that Greece didn't enter the eastern side of the Iron Curtain like you did (because this is what I'm getting here) , but to say the Junta did good is like me saying that the eastern block did good to your country.

As for the GDP of Greece is higher than Hungarian and Chech combined. And certaintly far bigger than Slovenia's or Croatia's.

And it is also true what Le Vile said that you should not see communism as Stalinism just because that is what you had to go through.

[Bereta_Eder]

Oh, and the alternative was NOT Greece going to the eastern block.
Only a very naive and uninformed person would say that.

The alternative was Andreas Papandreou coming to power and Greece regaining a large amount of independence from international patrons something that scared some people very much.

Papandreou did become PM later on and the sky did not fall on anyone's head.

Don't confuse the Junta with the Civil War.

[Bereta_Eder]

And yet something else of also big importance.

You may remember a small island in eastern mediterenean called Cyprus.

You may know who invaded it. What you don't know is that the Junta has had a huge part of the responsibility for what happened to Cyprus.

To put it blantly, were it not for the Junta there would not be a devided Cyprus now.

As I said you know very little.

[Ned]

Originally posted by paiktis22
And yet something else of also big importance.

You may remember a small island in eastern mediterenean called Cyprus.

You may know who invaded it. What you don't know is that the Junta has had a huge part of the responsibility for what happened to Cyprus.

To put it blantly, were it not for the Junta there would not be a devided Cyprus now.

As I said you know very little.

paiktis, We apparently had a "sterling" record back in the 60's. Kennedy tries to assainate Castro. He does assainate the president of South Vietnam. Johnson overthrows the Greek democracy and invades the Dominican Republic. Nixon/Kissinger do the same for Chile's democracy.

Sterling.

Ned

[Serb]

Originally posted by Olegus
In fact, we win together.

That’s why they shout everywhere that they save everyone’s asses?

SU needed badly second front, we expected it much earlier...

That’s why they opened it when Germany was doomed and it was pretty clear for everyone that it will be crushed soon?

So, guys don't be silly.

You are asking too much.
Perhaps we enjoy this sandbox fight.

About, first topic. I would like to see Russia second in list,

Who care about second place/ the winner takes it all.

but we need to fight for this position. I write "fight", but I don't mean bloody war - I mean trade and economics growth.Perhaps, trade wars, like last one "Chicken vs Steel"

Then return to home and do something for this.

[Serb]

Islamic fundamentalism is a real threat to civilization. It is not simply a religion. It is extremely aggressive political movement and is making war on the civilized world.
To some who believe that Osama bin Laden is all about Israel, the Russian experience in Chechnya is a wake up call. This is a world problem. We are under attack.

Exactly.
At least one man realizes what type of threat we’ve faced. All of us are under attack, and the question is not only about Russians or Americans. Whole world is under attack. Religious extremism is a very serious threat to all humanity. Perhaps it’s the same type of threat as fascism was.

[Serb]

Anyway, if atheistic revolution could win in Russia, catholic tzar could for sure.

Who told you that they win easily? And did they really win?

mmmm? Strange....

Nothing strange. It’s insult for me to hear such compare. You really didn’t saw an ultra right Russian if you think so.

As Katy? isn't...

Who is this Katy?

hear it, oh communists of Apolyton! HEAR IT!!!!

Yep HEAR it!!!
And try to convince me that it isn’t true if you can of course.

I doubt that. Recently You had to get your youth drunk to force them to go to Tchechenia...

Not recently. It was in first campaign, when just drafted conscripts were sending there (Mr. Yeltsin responsible for this). We received lessons I guess. During second war only professionals were sent there. This is one of the reasons why second campaign aside of first lasted only few months. The second reason is because local population didn't support terrorists like they do in first campaign.

Not quite. You have no real power perhaps except for some post-soviet states.

Oh sure.
Try to exclude us from UN Security Council then. Any nation, which can easily wipe out all life from this planet within few minutes, is very powerful and influential by definition.

And...?

And it will remain a part of Russian Federation FOREVER.

You just admit that through long Russian rule over Tchechenia, You were unable to teach them anything.

Not at all. In times of SU there was no troubles in Chechnya. All troubles began when SU collapsed. Nationalistic, extremist and fascist’s regimes become very powerful only in times of great troubles. During its last years SU was in deep economical crisis and when it’s finally collapsed it brings a real economical disaster. Of course it’s much easier to blame people of different nationalities in all your troubles, that’s why all kinds of extremist arise in such times. That’s what happens there after disintegration of SU.

And hell what? Higher authorities cut off from his action.

Never. NEVER.
In fact they did exactly the opposite. Maskhadov made a mobilization, declared Jihad against Russia and sent REINFORCEMENTS in Dagestan.
But, if even (only hypothetically) they did it, it doesn’t change anything. Try to imagine the situation: Russian defense minister launched an attack against Poland, Russian forces invade Poland territory, killed many Polish soldiers and then Russian president said: “look guys I don’t know who is this minister, I had no idea what’s my defense minister intended to do”. Do you realize that this is an absurd?

Rethinking it, I must change my views a bit though. I understand You partially, I must admit, as You may think that if You won't control it, You may be vulnerable to other attacks. Russian action in Tchechenia is partially reasonable.

During all time of their “de facto” independence every day I saw on TV news about stolen people, not everyday but very frequently about bomb explosions on markets in various Russian cities. Today it’s ended. Yes, those bastards explode something in Chechnya almost every week, but today they have no power to project they terrorist’s actions any deeper into Russian territory. Every day they losing their power, they are doomed, their masters destroyed in Afghanistan. (Americans, thank you very, VERY MUCH), they lost almost all external support, (esp. after Hattab was eliminated, he was the major figure in connection between them and foreign extremist’s groups). As for local support it’s very, very weak, because under Mashadov’s rule all those Vahhabites and foreign mercenaries didn’t love local population very mach. Life in fundamentalist state of Taliban’s type (which Chechnya was for 3 years) isn’t very cool, I guess local people realize it now. That’s why many Chechen’s veterans of first war fought on our side in second campaign. Look for example on today’s head of Chechnya Kadyrov or on major of Grozny- Gantamirov.

But still I think it has right to be independant if it wonts it.

It’s can’t be a fully independent and you perfectly understand it. Chechnya is devastated, it has no economy. Without external support it’s unable to survive. If we leave it, there come others (Turkey or something.) During 3 years of their “de facto” independence they didn’t build a single hospital, a single school or created a single work place. Today we are building schools, (and already build a lot of them), building hospitals (and already build a lot of them), creating work places (and already build a lot of them).

My advice is to let it go free, shut the borders up and wait until they will calm down.

Thanks a lot for this advice. We already tried this, instead of rebuilding economy they prefer to buy weapons and attack us again. You do not realize that Chechnya was not the only their goal, they wanted to create a much larger fundamentalist state, the Dagestan was the next step for them, but not the last in their plans. It’s good that all their plans remains only on maps, because people of Dagestan resisted their invasion.

But alternative is war, which means that then, You will be attacked for sure.

The Alternative is peace. The Chechen people are tired of war, tired of extremists, fundamentalists and all kind of villains. They are rebuilding they republic now, the remaining tiny groups of bandits will be eliminated soon, because they lost support of locals. All is over or at least almost is over.

Do You really don't know Mickiewicz?

Well, I’m ready to show my ignorance.
I’m really don’t know about him. Who is he anyway? Some kind of linguist or historian?

Jedna Jaskolka wiosny nie czyni. Kilka tez.
Zreszta, i on mial wielka przewage.

What happen with my Polish? I don’t understand a word.
I guess it’s some kind of Polish saying. Am I right?
Could you translate it on English?

No. Attack on Finland was attempt to reestablish Russian/Soviet rule in a land that belonged earlier

Still it’s different wars. And perhaps it was an attempt to remove frontier from Leningrad,
anyway it doesn’t changed the fact that SU attacked first and acted like aggressor and btw, was punished for this by exclusion from league of nations.

Anyway, our f.l. spoke so good Russian that lady Putin "proposed" her office of president of Moscow

Our f.l knows a lot of foreign languages too, 3 or more don’t remember, she was a teacher.

a ten kto z nami nie ??? ??? zagrac na nosie
Every one who disagreed with us, remember about this:
dla nas ??? i biblia i ryba(?)
Love and peace for like bible and food,
no mozemy dac i policja/polizac
But we can easily kick your asses,
Za narodowe Katmandu?
If you dare to do something, against our precious Katmandu.

It’s a lyric of funny song from soundtrack of very popular Russian movie “Brat-2”. The song is called “Katmandu” I’ve typed it mostly for Saras, bcs I know he speaking on Russian freely. I wonder that you understood a lot of it.

(??? dziwny jezyk. Taki zepsuty polski, he he he)

Konechno dziwny (divnyi?).

(sprobojcie jeszcze raz spalic nasza stolice to wam pokazemy, to ja wam moge zagwarantowac.

It’s very precision translation. Think about it.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
It IS crap. Those frigates that US gave us aren't in good condition too.

AMERICANS where are you?

Your navy was called a CRAP twice!!! What are you waiting for? Get him!!!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Serb
Exactly.
At least one man realizes what type of threat we’ve faced.

Leveling cities with vaccum bombs don't help you in your war effort though.

[Heresson]

"Who told you that they win easily? And did they really win?

They didn't win easily, but it was atheism,
something much much much more distanced from your tradition.
And they won. Comeback to cerkiew today is rather tactical.

"Nothing strange. It?s insult for me to hear such compare.

Why? You do fit defenitions...

"You really didn?t saw an ultra right Russian if you think so.

THERE ARE WORSE????? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Who is this Katy?

Katyn is one of places where Polish military officers and
intelligents were killed by SU during the war;
Stalin was Transporting Poles from the lands he got by partaging
Poland with Hitler, and intellectuals and officers were killed.
Until recently, SU/Russia denied these facts. When Germans
took earlier belonging to SU lands during the war, they discovered
mass graves, announced it is Soviet thing (while Soviets claimed
it was German thing; Soviet and Polish experts had other views,
but those that disagreed with official version were dispppearing)
and asked Red Cross at the same time that Poland did to check it;
that was SU' official reason to breake diplomatic contacts with
real Polish gouverment and construct a one of their own.

"Yep HEAR it!!!
And try to convince me that it isn?t true if you can of course.

I agree that it is true and that's why I think a communists should have not supported
Soviet Union.

"Not recently. It was in first campaign, when just drafted conscripts were sending there (Mr. Yeltsin responsible for this). We received lessons I guess. During second war only professionals were sent there. This is one of the reasons why second campaign aside of first lasted only few months. The second reason is because local population didn't support terrorists like they do in first campaign.

A few years ago is recently for me. Still I protest against calling all Tchechenian fighters terrorists.

"Oh sure.
Try to exclude us from UN Security Council then. Any nation, which can easily wipe out all life from this planet within few minutes, is very powerful and influential by definition.

...leaving your country without economical help from the west, to die quickly.

"And it will remain a part of Russian Federation FOREVER.

and ever, and ever amd ever...
na na na
na na na na na
na na na
na na na na na
Why do You think it should?

Not at all. In times of SU there was no troubles in Chechnya. All troubles began when SU collapsed. Nationalistic, extremist and fascist?s regimes become very powerful only in times of great troubles. During its last years SU was in deep economical crisis and when it?s finally collapsed it brings a real economical disaster. Of course it?s much easier to blame people of different nationalities in all your troubles, that?s why all kinds of extremist arise in such times. That?s what happens there after disintegration of SU.

But why Tchechenians were the only part of Federation that insisted on their independance?
Didn't it have anything to do with what Stalin did to them?
And what's with fameous Soviet indoctrination? haven't they learned anything through years
in Soviet schools? Or kidnapping and terrorising were the things that they learned there?

"Never. NEVER.
In fact they did exactly the opposite. Maskhadov made a mobilization, declared Jihad against Russia and sent REINFORCEMENTS in Dagestan.

Only later.

"But, if even (only hypothetically) they did it, it doesn?t change anything. Try to imagine the situation: Russian defense minister launched an attack against Poland, Russian forces invade Poland territory, killed many Polish soldiers and then Russian president said: ?look guys I don?t know who is this minister, I had no idea what?s my defense minister intended to do?. Do you realize that this is an absurd?

It's not. I can easily imagine crazy -or drunk- Russian general.
Anyway I'd like that. Everyone would condemn You and start liking us...

During all time of their ?de facto? independence every day I saw on TV news about stolen people, not everyday but very frequently about bomb explosions on markets in various Russian cities. Today it?s ended. Yes, those bastards explode something in Chechnya almost every week, but today they have no power to project they terrorist?s actions any deeper into Russian territory. Every day they losing their power, they are doomed, their masters destroyed in Afghanistan. (Americans, thank you very, VERY MUCH), they lost almost all external support, (esp. after Hattab was eliminated, he was the major figure in connection between them and foreign extremist?s groups).

it's not sure is he is not alive.

As for local support it?s very, very weak, because under Mashadov?s rule all those Vahhabites and foreign mercenaries didn?t love local population very mach. Life in fundamentalist state of Taliban?s type (which Chechnya was for 3 years) isn?t very cool, I guess local people realize it now. That?s why many Chechen?s veterans of first war fought on our side in second campaign. Look for example on today?s head of Chechnya Kadyrov or on major of Grozny- Gantamirov.

And when they, civilised people, will be willing to make Tchechenia independant too,
what would You do?

It?s can?t be a fully independent and you perfectly understand it. Chechnya is devastated, it has no economy.

With help of Russians

Without external support it?s unable to survive. If we leave it, there come others (Turkey or something.) During 3 years of their ?de facto? independence they didn?t build a single hospital, a single school or created a single work place. Today we are building schools, (and already build a lot of them), building hospitals (and already build a lot of them), creating work places (and already build a lot of them).

I believe that in every post-communistic country there are too many hospitals.
Anyway if there were so poor, how were they supposed to build sth>?

Thanks a lot for this advice. We already tried this, instead of rebuilding economy they prefer to buy weapons and attack us again. You do not realize that Chechnya was not the only their goal, they wanted to create a much larger fundamentalist state, the Dagestan was the next step for them, but not the last in their plans. It?s good that all their plans remains only on maps, because people of Dagestan resisted their invasion.

walhamdu Allahi.

The Alternative is peace. The Chechen people are tired of war, tired of extremists, fundamentalists and all kind of villains. They are rebuilding they republic now, the remaining tiny groups of bandits will be eliminated soon, because they lost support of locals. All is over or at least almost is over.

Still I think it's Russian propaganda to bigger or smaller extent;
"poor people of X are troubled by Bad Guys no more and can come back to their peaceful work"

jest taki kawal, pewneie rosyjski.
Opowiada on o konflikcie radziecko-chi?skim w odleglych czasach.
Sowiecki komunikat radiowy;
"dzis nad ranem o godzinie piatej zbrodnicze sily chi?skie
zaatakowaly pracujacy spokojnie na polu kombajn radziecki.
Kombajn, po odpowiedzeniu ogniem, odlecial do Moskwy"

Well, I?m ready to show my ignorance.
I?m really don?t know about him. Who is he anyway? Some kind of linguist or historian?

He is said to be Polish greatest Poethe. He was borned in Zaosie near Nowogrodek,
which today belongs to Byelorussia, in year 1798 I think, attended Vilnius (polish at this time)
university, where he was arrested by Russians for Polish organisationing. His brother was some
officiel so he didn't get harsh punishment. Later he went to Moscow, where he made friends
(or was it later and elsewhere) with Puszkin. Later they argued a lot about Poland, as Puszkin
turned out to be Russian nationalist (I read his poems in very good translation, can judge it).
Mickiewicz later lived in Paris, where he was teaching Slavistics, and leading Tibune of the Peoples.
He is respondible that in our national epopea we say "Lithuania, my fatherland" - for him
Lithuania was a part of Poland.
I knew two Puszkin's poems by heart;
"Biesy"
Pedza chmury, wala chmury,
niewidomie ksiezyc mzy
Na snieg lotny proszac z gory
Metne niebo, metne mgly
Jade, jade w dal bezbrzezna,
dzyn-dzyn-dzyn dzwoneczka dzwiek,
Strasznie, strasznie w te noc sniezna!
Rosnie pustka, rosnie lek.
and so on.

"czy po ulicy chodze szumnej..."
Czy po ulicy chodze szumnej,
czy zwiedzm tlumny Bozy dom,
Czy wsrod mlodziezy bezrozumnej,
Zawsze oddaje sie mym snom.

I mowie; chyzo przemkna lata
I choc dookola tylu nas
Zejdziemy wszyscy w mrok ze swiata
I zawsze komus w droge czas
and so on.

What happen with my Polish? I don?t understand a word.
I guess it?s some kind of Polish saying. Am I right?
Could you translate it on English?

Yes. but I don't know what is English name for jaskolka,
a little bird that is said to come exactly when the spring
starts. It is black with white belly I guess, and with
specificly shaped tail.
this saying says that if one jaskolka shows up,
it doesn't mean that it's already spring.

Still it?s different wars. And perhaps it was an attempt to remove frontier from Leningrad,
anyway it doesn?t changed the fact that SU attacked first and acted like aggressor and btw, was punished for this by exclusion from league of nations.

SU acted like agressor when it comes to Poland too.
But I looked on it from other point too;
if Germans started their offensive not from bug line,
but from eastern border of Poland, they would have conquered
Moscow for sure. But that's not what Stalin ment. Otherwise he
wouldn't let Poland be conquered by Germans in any part,
and Ribbentrop-Molotow pact wouldn't have been signed.

Our f.l knows a lot of foreign languages too, 3 or more don?t remember, she was a teacher.

So her praise is even more valuable.

It?s a lyric of funny song from soundtrack of very popular Russian movie ?Brat-2?. The song is called ?Katmandu? I?ve typed it mostly for Saras, bcs I know he speaking on Russian freely. I wonder that you understood a lot of it.

I didn't understand it all that good. When a Slovakian says something,
or Byelorussian even, Poles can understand him almost fully. Russian not quite.

Konechno dziwny (divnyi?).

yes. strange.

It?s very precision translation. Think about it.

We won't burn it, then. We'll cover it with water!

[Ecthy]

Why do all Poles (well, a fair majority of them) think their country is the best in the world and has always been?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Why do all Poles (well, a fair majority of them) think their country is the best in the world and has always been?

I've noticed that. Sort of like a giant national inferiority complex...

[Heresson]

Both You;
why do You say that here? I have not argued at greateness of Poland here. Perhaps You just took a quick look at the topic and at that Poland is discussed here, and not thinking too much, wrote those replies. I just argued over Polish-Russian relationships. I never thought
that my country is the best one and always been, and hardly any Pole would say that. Unlike many Israeli and German guysSome time ago I read what one Israeli girl said about her state, that it was built by grandpas, and made a might by parents. THAT was silly, as Israer exist both economically and politically only thanks to foreign help. When it comes to Germany, You are might and no-one denies that. Still, if complexes are shown by nationalism, You are far more complexed than we are, as political situation in eastern Germany shows.

[Ecthy]

Political situation in East Germany? As in 25-50 % of the people voting for democratic socialists in each election? I don't see any connection to nationalism there... must be rather 'hidden and therefore pure evil nationalism'