Jean-Marie Le Pen vs. Arlette Laguiller - who'd you vote for?

[Zoid]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
My personal experience of Trotsky-ites is that they're every bit as racist, bigoted and close-minded as Le Pen is. Whether the French variety are just as bad, I don't know... but probably.

Some trotskyists are very close-minded. I´ll give you that. But racist and bigoted?? Nah, never seen it... Which trotskyists have you been hanging with?

DeeEllway: DeeEllway?? Come on... Whose deranged DL are you?

Oh, and I should´ve voted for Laguiller

[*End Is Forever*]

Oh, undoubtedly. The Trosky-ites on campus are most certainly anti-semetic, for a start, and they're bigoted against anyone who doesn't agree with them, and having seen their friends in action at NUS Conference I can't say I've changed my opinion.

In any case, their habit of calling anyone who disagrees with them a "fascist" - regardless of their political persuasion - fundamentally devalues the term, and makes the legitimate political fight against extremists, both on campus and in society generally, far, far harder.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Sikander


You spit that dogma out so smoothly it seemed like you almost thought of it yourself. As long as it isn't Christian dogma I guess. So you're saying that the struggle of the working classes (which are those btw?, and are they struggling for or against something, or just struggling?) is a more important point of identity for members of this arbitrary class group (the device of the communist) than their national identity? HA HA HA! Stick to science son. I doubt that is true even in Western Europe which has been immersed in commy propoganda for over a century and is seeing it's nations washed away by the EU degree by degree. Every communist state has played the nationalism card for all it was worth, and the idea of nationalism is the universal success (left, right and middle) that communism always thought it would be.

Yeah, I know it sounded a bit dogmatic, but the reason was that I didn't want to be dragged into a protracted argument, just illustrating the point of what LO stood for.

I would reply to your post if it was intelligible, but it just jumped too quickly and I couldn't make sense of it.

What I did glean from that is that you have accused me of being brainwashed with commie propaganda. I guarantee you that during my childhood that the only propaganda I have been exposed to was the foul effluent that came from the organs of the US bureaucracy. I have no interest in the nation state, and I am most certainly not going to cry if it turns into some United States of Europe or Global State. One oppressor is the same as any other in my book, but change is good, it gives opportunity.

HA HA HA! Stick to your shit shovelling son

Iain, my personal experience with Trotskyists is that they are not racist, bigoted or close minded. If they are, they certainly aren't very good trotskyists in my book. And that kind of standpoint is certainly not what LO subscribes to.

[Spiffor]

The goal of LO is the violent proletarian revolution, as it is the only way to free the workers of the bourgeois domination, in their point of view. They're totally closed-minded, and think that everything other than them is the same : bad. That's why they refused to vote for the tobin tax, that's why they refuse to choose between Chirac and Le Pen.
They're left extremist, and in this sense, as dangerous as right-extremeist. Not sympathetic at all, if you know some people coming from her movement (one revolutionnary tried to drag me in the movement when I was 15-16).
I'd vote "empty" : going to the urn, but puttin in an empty envelope. The 2 are as bad as the other

[C0ckney]

I'd emigrate. But if I had to make the choice then it would be Le Pen, the idea of a 'worker's revolution' has never appealed to me.

[Provost Harrison]

The lamp post it is for you Cockney

[C0ckney]

Vile peasant, guards seize him!

[Buck Birdseed]

Arlette. Although she's probably more right-wing than many mainstream parties the way I see it (Trots are generally anti-feminist, anti-homosexual racists), She's less right-wing than Le Pen.

[Akka]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
In any case, their habit of calling anyone who disagrees with them a "fascist" - regardless of their political persuasion -

Reminds me of the nasty habit of MANY Americans to just call "commie" someone who is an inch to their left on the political side

Arlette all the way. She's got stupid ideas, but it's about utopia, not about hatred toward people just because they don't have the same amount of melanin in their cell skins.

[*End Is Forever*]

Moving on from what I said before, I'd probably vote for Le Pen. Better an honest bigot than one who tries to hide it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, I voted Le Pen as well... at least he isn't a wacko commie .

[Zoid]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
Oh, undoubtedly. The Trosky-ites on campus are most certainly anti-semetic, for a start, and they're bigoted against anyone who doesn't agree with them, and having seen their friends in action at NUS Conference I can't say I've changed my opinion.

In any case, their habit of calling anyone who disagrees with them a "fascist" - regardless of their political persuasion - fundamentally devalues the term, and makes the legitimate political fight against extremists, both on campus and in society generally, far, far harder.

Oh, that kind...

[Zoid]

Snapcase where do you get your opinions of trotskyists? Neither in Sweden or England/Scotland you get those kinds of trotskyists. Sounds more like stalinists to me.

Spiffor: I agree with you to some extent. LO IS an extremly secterian organization even for trots But they stand for good ideas, basically.

If you can´t have Besancenot and LCR I guess Laguiller/LO is the next best choice...

[Ramo]

I'd vote for the dirty commie.

[Provost Harrison]

I agree Kamrat, I have known quite a lot of Trotskyists in my time, and not one of them has been a racist, bigot, sexist or anything discriminatory. They tend to be very true to their convictions.

I really don't know where you are drawing these stereotypes from, as they are not true in my experience, not a jot.