Am I Apolyton's Only Conservative?

[Felch]

Been libertarian since I started reading P.J. O'Rourke. A good three years I suppose.

Conservatism, as it was known in 1980's America, is dying. It lacks credibility and vigor. It's not all wrong, it just needs to be changed.

[Ned]

Depends on what you mean by conservative.

I believe that the U.S. governmental structure is the best ever developed, a perfected Roman Empire.

I believe in Free Markets - but I also believe in the Anti-trust laws to muzzle abusers like Gates.

I believe the family unit is the best for society and should be promoted and protected.

I believe that the level of civilization can be measured by the level of equality it gives women.

I believe that "all men are created equal." (From the Declaration of Independence.) This thought leads to equal civil rights for all, no slavery, no abortion and no death penalty.

I believe in freedom of expression and its corollary, the right to obtain information.

I believe in freedom of religion from state control. I also believe that government should not be anti-religious. The U.S. government today is anti-religious in many overt and subtle ways.

When it comes to vice: gambling, prostitution, drugs and the like, I am of two minds. Mostly, I believe that the government should regulate rather than criminalize these. Governments have never been able to stamp out vice, but the attempt itself has lead to a criminal element in society that supplies vice to those who want it. The criminal element is arguably more destructive to society than the vice itself.

I believe laws, particularly tax laws, should not favor one group over another depending on status. I am particularly offended by progressive taxes.

I am strongly against Socialism. However, I do believe in the social safety-net, but not as a way of life.

I don’t know what the above adds up to. I suspect that most Americans subscribe to most of the above.

Ned

[Juggernaut]

Am I Apolyton's Only Conservative?

Hopefully.

[Goingonit]

You are not Apolyton's only conservative; just Apolyton's only reactionary.

If you support a party that was last in power 50 years ago, that makes you pretty old-guard.

As for my politics, I am very libertarian on some issues, for instance I believe that personal freedom and rights should be superior over all other considerations in law, and I believe that trade between countries should be completely unregulated. However I support a social safety net because sometimes people find themselves at the bottom of society and it isn't their fault.

[nationalist]

I am a conservative, as was noted a while ago.
However, my beliefs differ from the Republicans in substantial ways. I am a protectionist/ state capitalist economically. I am a conservative ( more appropriately, a traditionalist) socially. However, A.S., I have read some of your threads, and I don't think that we agree on too many things.

[Lincoln]

I am a conservative but not a Republican. There is a big difference. Conservatism means essentially to conserve that which works instead of throwing it out the window and subjecting societies to endless experimentation. If something is not broken then there is no need to fix it. Of course there is a lot of things broken now but we ought to conserve that which works and study history for some ideas on what has been tried and what has failed.

[DinoDoc]

What am I? Chopped liver?

[MrFun]

For the most part, I try to respect moderate conservatives who are not racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semetic, or worshipful of the upper class.

The less EXTREME conservatives we have, the better society is. And the less EXTREME liberals we have, the better society is.

I'm a moderate liberal BTW.

[Lonestar]

As the Chairman of the Apolyton Evil Capitalist Conservative Party, I'm mildly insulted by what you're saying.

[Sava]

Originally posted by MrFun
For the most part, I try to respect moderate conservatives who are not racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semetic, or worshipful of the upper class.

The less EXTREME conservatives we have, the better society is. And the less EXTREME liberals we have, the better society is.

I'm a moderate liberal BTW.

Well said! Extremism isn't always bad. The Founding Father's were the original extremists. It just depends on which horse you're backing.

[Al B. Sure!]

Fun:

For the most part, I try to respect moderate conservatives who are not racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semetic, or worshipful of the upper class.

Not racist... not sexist (I have an extremely high opinion of women)... homophobic in that I feel extreme, in your face gays ruin it for all homosexuals and note that I have defended homosexuality on apolyton... not anti-semetic... DEFINENTLY not worshipful of the damn immoral bourgeious.


thanks

[Shi Huangdi]

Political categories are always misleading. I will definitley admit to having strong libertarian leanings on many issues, and I do not believe the state exists to be our father, but if I had to label myself I would still call myself a conservative.

[Ned]

Again, unless we all agree to what these terms mean, we are not communicating. I suspect people who call themselves liberals or conservative will have quite a few things they will agree on leaving only a few areas of disagreement. However, the areas of disagreement will vary from person to person. Typically, one of the two will be defending the status quo - a conservative stance - while the other will be advocating change - a liberal stance. Am I wrong?

For example, person A may believe in a highly progressive tax structure. Person B may not. Which is the "conservative" given that today’s' tax structures are generally progressive and person B is asking for change?

In another example, suppose that a fundamentalist believes that women should be denied the right to vote. Since most women today have the right to vote, the people who want to maintain the right to vote for women are conservatives.

As to U.S. parties, I believe the Republican Party is generally comprised of people who share a common economic philosophy that can be expressed as pro-business. Social issues are less important. In contrast, the Democratic Party is generally anti-business (read, Socialist) and believes in the importance of social issues.

Other U.S. parties, I believe, are extreme versions of either the Republican or Democratic Parties.

However, recent presidents of both parties have "moved to the center." Clinton was a strong advocate of free trade. Bush, in contrast, imposed steel tariffs. If this were the "only" issue dividing Bush and Clinton, I would vote for Clinton.

Ned

[Seeker]

You should read my theory of political parties...it's in another thread where I argued that Right or Left is meaningless, the important distinction is only how secure a party's grip on power is.

The four way axis is pretty good for individuals though.

Social Values: Individual Decides--->Society/Government 'best interests'
Economic: Individual fends for self ----> Society/Government 'helps/interferes'

I think the big problem that people who would otherwise be Libertarians in the USA have is that they think they can't be a patriot if they're a libertarian....of course, most Libs think THEY are the real patriots...

[Zachriel]

For somewhat more conservative views , check out the Civ3 strategy forum. A lot of posters think using the whip and razing cities are progressive social policies with which to build a civilization.