The great information debate

[MrBaggins]

Actually... DNA doesn't fit YOUR definition of information

4. Pragmatics.

This is the practical level. What does this actually do? Answer; It makes specific proteins. The whole idea of the code is to actually do something practical which is the making of specific proteins with a specific function that perform specific tasks that are useful in the organism. DNA when translated by the ribosomes and the accompanying machinery actually produces the desired product. Information to be useful must actually do something. The information contained in DNA actually works and has a practical value.

DNA does nothing... it is used by a dumb process

[MrBaggins]

That the definition that we have placed on DNA being information only applies to us, in our search for mapping DNA.

DNA can be (and is) data for a data-processing process.

[MrBaggins]

if we don't know the entirety of the DNA, then DNA is not all informational to us... only data

[MrBaggins]

DNA closely matches the definition of data, yet not information.

INFORMATION
1. the communication or reception of knowledge or intelligence.
2.a knowledge obtained from investigation, study or instruction.
2.b intelligence, news
2.c facts, data
2.d a signal

DATA
1. factual material used as a basis especially for discussion or decision: information
2. something used as a basis for calculating or measuring.

[Lincoln]

"DNA does nothing... it is used by a dumb process"

Well you are finally getting the point. Which brings us to the topic. That is the source of information contained in DNA. Just like a computer program is a "dumb process" it has as its source an intelligent being that is capable of making value judgments. Call that information "data" or "bits" or whatever it is still operating as a result of intelligent input. DNA is not intelligent. I never said it was. If you are saying that it contains dumb data then you are correct if you understand the source of that data.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Lincoln
I hope that you are all looking up "DNA,information". There is no argument really. And yes the information is stored as data but the topic is the source. It uses the information that was entered into it and processes it as data without understanding it. In other words, it uses it.

For the last ****ing time, NOTHING ****ing uses the goshdarn "information"! NOTHING gets processed, NOTHING gets read, NOTHING AT ALL! ALL DNA DOES IS CAUSE REACTIONS TO OCCUR BY VIRTUE OF ELECTRICAL CHARGES!

sorry all for that horrible abuse of written language.

[MrBaggins]

If I am getting the point and that statement is correct then YOU HAVE PROVED that DNA is not INFORMATION according to your definition. Thank you for clearing that up.

Regarding the computer algorithm, I created a natural example of the algorithm, possibly naturally occuring with no 'creator' but natural forces... data does not need even an intelligent originator

[Lincoln]

Of course the next question is:

Does a book contain information? Yes__No__

[MrBaggins]

No.. a book contains a variety of atoms in a variety of vectors.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Of course the next question is:

Does a book contain information? Yes__No__

Not unless there is someone who can read it.

[Lincoln]

"ALL DNA DOES IS CAUSE REACTIONS TO OCCUR BY VIRTUE OF ELECTRICAL CHARGES!"

That is all a computer does. But it still contains information that is used.

[MrBaggins]

and light photons provide your eyes with data, which your brain translates into information.

[Lincoln]

"Not unless there is someone who can read it."

Goingonit is right. MrBaggins is just being difficult.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Lincoln
"ALL DNA DOES IS CAUSE REACTIONS TO OCCUR BY VIRTUE OF ELECTRICAL CHARGES!"

That is all a computer does. But it still contains information that is used.

No it contains data.

You just inferred that it wasn't... and it DNA alone fits the definition for data, and not information.

[MrBaggins]

It doesn't cause... other processes use IT.