The great information debate

[MrBaggins]

delete

[Lincoln]

The fact is DNA does contain information because it passes all of the tests. If it spontaneously combined that still does not explain the specific order it is in. The bases, AGCT have an equal lateral attaction. Under the laws of physics there is no reason why they should be in a specified order.

[MrBaggins]

It also passes the test of being Data.

[Lincoln]

Yes it is data and information. And also as you said it can be in an entirely random sequence and be useless as information. The point is that there is information in it now and not just data or randomness.

[MrBaggins]

The order, if anything goes against it being information. The genes are far from ordinal, and some mutations require complex prescence and non presence... but all they ultimately mean are dumb instructions for dumb stem cells. Which developed because they existed before.

[MrBaggins]

So if it can be data... why are you making it information, if there is a perfectly plausable reason for it to be 'just' data?

Sounds like wishful thinking, for a creator and for information in dna.

[MrBaggins]

No... it becomes Information when you view it... you process it...

try not viewing it, and it will be just data.

sorry.. viewing and assigning meaning to different genes... i mean. the result of genes are information... i.e.


DNA data:
----
AAAG
GGTA
ACGT
----


'means a long neck.'

would be information.... implemented (data processed) by stem cells

the fact that you know those 3 genes in that particular pattern will result in a long neck is you data processing that data into information.

[MrBaggins]

delete

[MrBaggins]

delete

[Lincoln]

Yes it is true that the actual operation of life's machinery manifests it as real information. But the information is there when it is dead as well. Just as it is in a book. The fact that the genes are far from ordinal only compounds the problem.

[MrBaggins]

No... the data is there... which WE can interpret as information.

[Lincoln]

Well that is the root of your error. It is actually interpreted in the operation of the translation process which manifests it as pragmatic information. That takes place weather we see it or not.

[MrBaggins]

But we'd have to observe a common factor in the DNA data corresponding with the long neck...

If we never saw the common pattern of genes for a long neck. Then that wouldn't be information for us. It would just be instructions for the stem cells, and hence, a long neck.

[Lincoln]

I might also add that the translation of the code into a specified sequence of amino acids which fold into a precise shape so that they can fit precisely with another protein also proves that the information also exists on an abobetic level.

[Lincoln]

It doesn't matter what we observe or what is information "for us". The information is for the particular organism. It is an information processing system.