A War Crime in Jenin?

[DinoDoc]

Can someone explain to me why there is a refugee camp in Jenin give the amount of aid that the PLO has recieved since the Oslo process began?

[Natan]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Can someone explain to me why there is a refugee camp in Jenin give the amount of aid that the PLO has recieved since the Oslo process began?

"Refugee camp" means that refugees live there, residents get UN refugee aid, or both. It doesn't necessarily imply squalor, although there is a correlation.


Chegitz: I guess the US, Saudi Arabia, and the Kuwaiti government in exile are responsible for the horrible destruction in Kuwait city a decade ago . . .

[The Mad Monk]

Can someone explain to me how a refugee camp has satelite dishes and three story villas?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Can someone explain to me how a refugee camp has satelite dishes and three story villas?

Nope. I can, however, tell you I'm hard at work on a Empire Earth "Battle of Jenin" Scenario.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Nope. I can, however, tell you I'm hard at work on a Empire Earth "Battle of Jenin" Scenario.

Seriously? Let me know when it's done.

[el freako]

Eli,

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Jenin one of the area's handed over to the PA during the peace process?

Just as Israel was 'handed' over to the Jews in 1948.

So when Israel invaded Jenin surely the people there had just as much right to resist as Jews in 1948 did?


If your city was threatened with invasion by a force that had done little but make your life hard for 50 years I can't believe that you would not resist to the best of your ability - maybe to the extent of planting booby-traps for the enemy.

Israel's actions show that it is simply an invading power that only want's control over an area with little regard to the wishes of those living there.

Israel has not even had the courage of it's convictions to annex the occupied territories outright - because that would mean either granting the 4m palestinians there voting rights or making their covert apartheid over the palestininan overt.

[Natan]

Originally posted by el freako
Eli,

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Jenin one of the area's handed over to the PA during the peace process?

Just as Israel was 'handed' over to the Jews in 1948.

I don't see the connection really, except in the sense of declared independence.

So when Israel invaded Jenin surely the people there had just as much right to resist as Jews in 1948 did?

1) Unlike the Jewish settlements of 1948, Jenin has been the source of many suicide bombings
2) The Israelis haven't announced (and apparently don't have) any intention to kill or expel the inhabitants of the Jenin refugee camp. Compare with Azzam Pasha's statement during the 1948 war.

If your city was threatened with invasion by a force that had done little but make your life hard for 50 years I can't believe that you would not resist to the best of your ability - maybe to the extent of planting booby-traps for the enemy.

Okay, but if you do that, don't complain when Israel bulldozes your house to get rid of the booby traps.

Israel's actions show that it is simply an invading power that only want's control over an area with little regard to the wishes of those living there.

Um, excuse me? Israel went in for a few weeks to stop terrorists, and know it will be leaving. By this logic, I suppose American action in Afghanistan was that of an invading power wanting control over an area with little regard to the wishes of those living there. Actually, come to think of it, that phrase is a good description of most military campaigns on the enemy's soil.

Israel has not even had the courage of it's convictions to annex the occupied territories outright - because that would mean either granting the 4m palestinians there voting rights or making their covert apartheid over the palestininan overt.

No, Israel hasn't done that because it still has some hope of making a deal with the Palestinians.

[Imran Siddiqui]

No, Israel hasn't done that because it still has some hope of making a deal with the Palestinians.

Not with Sharon there isn't.

[DinoDoc]

They seem to have the same opinion of Arafat.

[Chris 62]

Well, well, well, another thread accusing Israel of warcrimes without a shred of proff, how original.

Considering the zone is closed to outside observers, how come people are so quick to condem Israel? (as usual )

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well one outside observer that went in afterwards described what she saw in the article I posted.

Kinda fishy why they didn't want journalists there in the first place

[Chris 62]

It could be true, but I prefer to wait untill something concrete can be put foward.

It was just two months ago that the USA was accused of mistreating prisoners in Cuba based on a photo ( ), so let's not jump to conclusions.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Eli


Seriously? Let me know when it's done.

Will do. You don't know how hard it is to make a bunch of guys with AK rifles strong enough to hold off a armored attack....

[Az]

Lonestar: you make EE scens???!!!!! do you post in any forums??

I am now at work at my first serious attempt at an EE scenario.

I fail to understand triggers though , or to be exact , how does one do them.

about the defence: make lots of bazookas, and uprade them to attack. use pillboxes around the building.

[Sikander]

I can't believe the level of self-delusion which goes on when the issue is the ME. You guys are war gamers and at least armchair historians. What happens when there is fighting in cities? There is destruction and loss of life. This is a war, and one side is counting on using your reaction and outrage to cover the fact that is has completely abrogated any claim to protection by the rules of warfare by it's purposeful murder of civilians. That side is called the Palestinians. The other side has been forced to go on the offensive in order to at least slow down the regular murder of it's non-combatants. It has massive firepower, and could easily starve or bombard it's enemies out of existence. This side is called Israel.

The funny thing is that Israel has decided to extend not only the normal rules of war to it's enemy (though these are not reciprocated), but it goes out of it's way to prevent civilian casualties by only using a limited selection of direct fire weapons to support the deliberate movements of it's maneuver elements. It does so even though by doing so it raises the risk for its soldiers by an order of magnitude. If you really want to cry about something, have a look at what a real battle in a city looks like. Berlin, Warsaw, Aachen, Stalingrad, can provide a much better frame of reference. If you want to see real genocide, then take a look at what happened in Rwanda, where more civilians were murdered in a week than have been killed in 50+ years of conflict between Jew and Muslim in the ME. You see a scan of the worst damage (with no idea how far it extends) and listen to the hysterical reports of the local civilians and suddenly its as if a million people were slaughtered. You really need numbers to have a perspective.

Maybe if the Palestinians leadership had made peace like real men when they were given the opportunity the Palestinian fighters and terrorists wouldn't have to hide behind their women and children now.